T4 (2.5ltr 1998) Starting problems

[touch107fm]

Hello all from Sydney.

I usually come on this site as a point of reference or any tips and of course to ask a few T4 questions. Well today my mate and I where driving down to the 'Gong' the van was driving fine and then it sort of misfired or the engine died for a second Oil light came on, not too sure what exactly happened but I decided it would be best to pull over.

I left the engine cool down before trying to start the van but no joy. I checked all the usual place:

Distributor cab
Checked all fuses
General check, no sign leaks or belts snapping etc

I recently replaced (3 months ago):
Timing belt
Auxiliary belt
Water pump
Flush coolant

Its being fine since, to cut a long story Short I ended up getting towed home (Talk god for the NRMA) and its parked up waiting for me to do some diagnostics on it.
The symptoms is when I turn the key the motor turns over but will not start. The is no sound of the fuel pump engauging. I checked the fuel filter to see if it was blocked and its was fine. I have being reading other posts on this forum about starting problems. I guess I need to check Fuel pump relay (how do you check if the relay is not working correctly)
Relay 30 for the ECU (again how to check this is working fine also where is the cheapest place to source any)
Coil pack (how do you check if this is broken)
Checked the battery terminals (new battery about 3 months ago)
Also can any tell me where the fuel pump is located.

I had a diagnostics cable from eBay which I tried on my old laptop and it didn't work, I ending up throwing the bloody thing in the bin as it would work. I only have mac's now so cannot plug it in check the error codes. Anyone in the eastern sub with a working diagnostics laptop fancy helping me out!!
I am reluctant to bring it to the garage just yet especially if its something simple.It couldn't have picked a worse time to break down as rego is due soon and money is tight!!

Any thoughts or tips.

[buzuki]

hall sender/engine speed sensor

[whiteVR6]

Easiest thing to do is pull out the longest lead put a screwdriver in the end and check for spark
If you have spark pull out that spark plug and check to see if its wet
if it is wet you need to check the cam timing
If cam timing is fine then you need to do a compression test

That will give you a good idea on your issue.

---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------

hall sender/engine speed sensor

Im pretty sure the t4 only ran a hall sender.
the 2.0 ran a map sensor while the later 2.5 ran a MAF

[touch107fm]

I have a Inline Ignition Spark Plug Tester I will do the above test at some stage tomorrow, I can also do the compression test, what sort of PSI should I be getting in all cylinders.

I take it the only way I will tell if any senors at knackered is by the VagCom.

Q.Can anyone tell me where the fuel pump is located is it located beside the fuel tank or inside the tank.

Many thanks

---------- Post added 12-03-2012 at 08:23 AM ---------- Previous post was 11-03-2012 at 10:38 PM ----------

I went to our local VW mechanic and we tested the fuel pump relay and it seems to be fine. He should me a way to bypass the relay to see if pumps any fuel. Can anyone tell me where the fuel cable hits the engine. I am guessing somewhere around the carburetor. he told me to try to test the fuel is being pumped when I turn the key.

Will let you know how I get on.

[Golf Loon]

Coil Pack is easiest and most likely.

Its behind the headlight passenger side and in the way of all water etc.

Get another one, plug it in and car will probably start.

That sends signals back to ecu and fuelpump, so start with the coil.

Fuel pump is under passenger seat, remove seat and carpet, then cover, then pump.

Good Luck.

Have new Coilpacks in stock here if you are in need.

[touch107fm]

Cheers for that, Dont want to start ripping up the seat just yet. I was talking to my work mates about the problem on hand, If only I had a mate who had the same van so I could test working parts in my broken van to see i can find out which part is broken. I dont want to start throwing money at parts which are not broken. I have not told the missus just yet she is still getting over the last bill we paid for the water pump + timing belt replacment.
It will be a dark day when I have to tell her!!

[buzuki]

surely your local 'VW' mechanic could of checked engine codes while there?

[touch107fm]

Update: Well as I don't have the luxury of testing the coil pack and relays with know working units I have being busy trying to figure out what is going wrong.
So far I have tested all relays and they seem fine.
Checked for spark and its fine.
Next up I tested the jumping the fuel pump relay with to see if I could get the fuel pump running nothing!
I then went in search of the fuel pump (man was this fun) passenger seat up and pulled back the lining and popped up the lid. I felt a little nervous doing this a I have never do anything like this before. I then tried to start the engine to see if any fuel was going to come out. Nothing! so after much debate I decided to pull the fuel pump.
This was a job I believe I should have left to the pros's as I managed to break the fuel sender from the pump, I feel like an idiot for not taking more time with it but its done now. I don't know if you can get replacement gauge reader.
So I then removed the pump let it drain and its now sitting on my workbench, I did a quick test on the pump appling a 12v supply across it and it make a little noise and thats it. It appears to be dead.

Can anyone confirm the correct way to test the pump.
If it is custard where is the best place to order one.

Many thanks.

[Sunny43.5]

Whilst you appear to be on the right track my old 97 T4 had a similar problem would be driving along and then all dash lights come on and engine stops it would aslo turn over but not start , then after a varied amount of time it would start again . After a frustrating number of visits to a VW dealer who could not diagnose the problem turned ot to be a $19 relay in the fuse box ran perfectly from that day on until I killed it [the van that is ]

[touch107fm]

I was thinking I have being a bit hastie in my dignostics, I brought the pump into work for the guys to test it in the engineering room and its 100% not working. A 12v supply was applied to the pump and nothing happend. As I said it looks like its broken, so where to source one from original or aftermarket.
I did test the fuel pump realy and the N0 30 relay and they where fine.

[touch107fm]

Hi Guys

Just a quick update on the issue I had with T4, I ended up getting a replacment fuel pump as mine went to custard. I never changed one before and man was it fun, the tank was nearly empty so it was not to much hassle to put in the new one.
Van fire up straight away and has been running like a dream since I put the new pump in.

I also had some fun trying to figure out how the pump guage sender worked, the pump I bought was an aftermarket one and had a slighty different fuel gauge sender. I also had fun putting all the seats and putting the floor matt back!

Overall quite pleased with myself for fixing this, I nearly gave up and went to the garage.
Cheers,
D

[Sunny43.5]

Good on you sometimes you just have to say bugger it I can do this .

[jets]

Well done, perseverance pays off[or lack of money] Your wife should be pleased with you. I read a long time ago, maybe 30 years, in a Popular Mechanics magazine that if you don't have a go your knowledge & experience won't progress. It's something that I have remembered & applied to my own life. It doesn't matter if you break something [I try not to] because it will probably still be cheaper than paying someone else & you will have learnt something.

[jasshrie]

Which Relay?

Whilst you appear to be on the right track my old 97 T4 had a similar problem would be driving along and then all dash lights come on and engine stops it would aslo turn over but not start , then after a varied amount of time it would start again . After a frustrating number of visits to a VW dealer who could not diagnose the problem turned ot to be a $19 relay in the fuse box ran perfectly from that day on until I killed it [the van that is ]

Hi Sunny43.5 - Do you recall which relay it was? I'm having a similar issue with intermittent cut-outs when the engine is warm.

Thanks!

[Sunny43.5]

Number 30 seems to be the one common problem .