YAY new T4

[BobR]

I like your wheels man, what are they?

Wheels are Auscar Brand.



Mirrors are fine. I been driving trucks for 30 years and relied on mirrors. It helps make you a more cautious driver, plus a small convex mirror helps.
Cheers
BobR

[Deeceer]

I agree with Soulspirit. You just can't adjust your mirrors to properly see both behind you and out to the side at an angled intersection (to see traffic coming up from behind you on the road to your left). Just one fixed window in the passenger side sliding door may save your life (and the lives of others !)

Sometimes aesthetics have to take a back seat to safety (IMO).

Agree wholeheartedly that the single window in the sliding door can be a boon (good for reversing out of nose-in angle parks in Qld country towns) but there is a way to set your mirrors up so you can see in a panoramic arc all the way from your sides to behind.

Set the rear vision mirror so it shows all or as much as possible of the rear window. Then set the wing mirrors so at first you can see back down each side of the car (which is the way most people have them) - but then fan them out into the blind spot on each side.

Take the vehicle on the road and see what happens when overtaking or being overtaken. There should be a slight overlap as an overtaking vehicle transitions from rear vision mirror to side mirror to peripheral vision on the right; peripheral to side to rear for an overtaken vehicle.

Too much overlap and you need to fan the mirror further out; too little, you've gone too far. The person who taught me this - an advanced driver trainer who has his own radio show in Brisbane, appears fairly regularly on TV and has published a book on driving - suggests an additional 'shoulder check' (a glance left or right as needed) to back up the peripheral vision.

Give it a go - it's hard to get used to at first because it seems counter-intuitive ('But I have to be able to see the sides of the car!') but a lot of advancing driving, such as skid control, is about unlearning erroneous instinctive responses.

I agree wholeheartedly that aesthetics have to take a back seat to safety but you really don't have to cut holes in the side of a T4 to be safe!

[gregozedobe]

I agree properly adjusted mirrors can be good when conditions are ideal. However, take a minute to consider this scenario (and no, it's not that far fetched, just ask any policeman, ambo or A&E doctor or nurse in a country area):

It's dusk, it's raining heavily, you've been driving for hours so all your windows and mirrors are completely covered in water droplets and road grime. You are feeling a bit tired, but you don't want to stop as you are only 20 minutes from your destination. It is not that easy to see anything through your full sized side windows, let alone in the (convex) passenger mirror. You don't have a window in your passenger side door, but you have angled your T5's passenger mirror so there aren't any blind spots.

You're on an 80kh stretch of road approaching an intersection (4 way) with the road on your left angled back enough so that you can't see it through the passenger side window, even if you lean forward. There are a lot of trees and shrubs on the verge so you can't see anything of the road to your left until you are 60 metres from the intersection.

There is a dark grey car without lights coming towards you on that road that angles back to your left. They are coming up to a Stop sign (you have right of way).

The important (possibly life threatening) things to be certain of right now are :

Do you see the car ? (remember you are tired, your windows and mirrors are dirty and covered in water droplets, the car is dark grey, has no lights on and it is nearly dark).

Even if you do realize it is there, can you accurately gauge their speed ? As it turns out, they are also tired, haven't seen you and are intending to drive straight through the Stop sign without stopping, just like they have done dozens of times before after a good session at the pub all afternoon).

Unless you see them clearly enough to realize they aren't stopping, you won't be aware of the danger and so won't take any action to avoid the collision. It will be no consolation to you at all that they have broken several road rules - your passenger will still be dead.

It isn't enough to be able to see whether there is another vehicle approaching or not (which is all you can do in a convex mirror), you also need to be able to properly estimate their approach speed so that you can correctly judge whether they are slowing down or whether a collision is possible. This is a much more life-critical situation than a possible lane change fender bender.

If you can still convince yourself that you are perfectly safe in the above scenario relying on mirrors alone then I can't do much more.

But if you would think on how much better vision you could have of that car if you just had a window in the passenger side door, you may just consider getting one installed (and a plain window isn't even very expensive).

[Deeceer]

It's dusk, it's raining heavily, you've been driving for hours so all your windows and mirrors are completely covered in water droplets and road grime. You are feeling a bit tired, but you don't want to stop... As it turns out, they are also tired, haven't seen you and are intending to drive straight through the Stop sign without stopping, just like they have done dozens of times before after a good session at the pub all afternoon).

I really don't want to get into an argument - really! but the hypothetical situation you're proposing is if I'm driving exhausted for hours on end and refuse to stop, and I encounter a drink driver who's driven through a stop sign, and a bunch of other factors come into play, then my properly adjusted mirrors will be at fault.

I say my wilfully stupid refusal to stop driving when dangerously tired and the fact that the other driver is drunk will be more significantly causitive factors in the unfolding disaster than how I've got my mirrors adjusted.

But I accept you're right, there will be situations in which no matter how mirrors are adjusted, they won't be ideal.

I simply believe from my own experience that the fanned out setting is better for a wider range of situations than driving around with 2 huge blind spots all the way down the side of a vehicle. And I'm supported in this view by a guy (the driver trainer acquaintance of mine) whose entire career has been about turning licence holders into drivers, and who was himself taught by a major Australian racing driver and road driving trainer.

And although I can't bear the idea of cutting holes in the walls of a non-passenger van, I'm with you all the way about the plain window in the sliding door. Although the one in my T4 is there by chance (I bought the van second-hand), I do use it occasionally as a side view fail safe and I fully intend that when I buy a new T5 (if I'm lucky enough) it will have the sliding door window!

Despite our seeing the mirror setting situation differently, I suspect we agree nonetheless on the other basics.

[gregozedobe]

Sorry, I do tend to rant on a bit about safety issues (I can't help myself). I'm firmly of the opinion that most crashes (I don't call them accidents) have at least 2 contributing factors, and often more than 2, so if you can reduce those factors it may help avoid at least some crashes.

My point was (and still is): it is safer to have a window in the passenger side door of a van than have it blank.

I wasn't denigrating the angle you have your external side mirrors adjusted to, just voicing my opinion that having that window is better than relying on your mirrors alone.

The T5s have a very convex section on the outside 1/3 of the passenger side exterior mirror, this seems to reduce the traditional blind spot (that you get with flat mirrors) considerably. I don't know how it compares with the T4 mirror.

I try to remain aware of vehicles coming up from behind (using my mirrors) so I can have an idea of any that may end up near me, and like your driver training friend I always back up that awareness with a final over the shoulder glance immediately before I physically move into the next lane (just to confirm that space really is clear and available). Without the extra window this glance cannot tell you anything about what is on your left side just behind you.

So I think we are actually agreeing more than disagreeing

[Deeceer]

So I think we are actually agreeing more than disagreeing

Agreed!

[Jmac]

Good on you for they buy, they are a great Van. I bought one a few weeks ago for a bargain, yes it needs work but its pretty sound and i can do all the work anyway. Mines is a 2.5 Pet too and is strong as an Ox, LWB with Barn doors. Looks good mind you it has 17 inch vaults on her which are a bit blingy but will be changing for Passat OEMs later on.
Enjoy
Jmac

[Golf Loon]

All T4s are great.

I have a blind one and I reckon they look better with no windows, particularly with signwriting.

The offset junction, or pulling out can be an issue very rarely, but I have a blindspot mirror and just take care.