Sam's build thread

[seangti]

We'll just drive out there that morning. If you get stuck with anything in Sydney give me a call.

Good to hear it's all coming along. Sounds like we'll have plenty of track time so can chip away and make tweaks. The Amaroo format will be a good comparison for Wakefield, more low/mid speed corners rather than high speed of the national circuit.

I had an uninteresting drive down over the weekend so sitting in Nowra atm. Will head up Friday night for a Saturday kick-off.

Out for a good time, not necessarily a fast time

[sambb]

Cool. For me it depends on the tune. We had to go back to the 2.5in maf because the load numbers down low were too low and making it hard to set up the timing apparently. The 3in maf was nearly ready to go, but the 2.5in maf is a bit behind now. So if the tune is cracking, i'll push. If its not finished then there's no point wringing its neck and i'll just look to fiddle, tune dampers etc and get into a few fun little races.

[sambb]

YouTube


Vid of Senna in CRX/civics again doing his throttle pulsing thing mid corner in a FWD.

[Water Boy]

You coming on Saturday mate?

[sambb]

yeah I am. Car is getting tuned at the moment. Probably only time for one more revision to flash in tomorrow so I hope its a good'n.. Got a mate in a little Clio RS W172 coming too. He's pretty keen to see how he goes against any NA MK1's and 2's. What car are you in?

[metalhead]

Let us know how it goes...

[sambb]

Result

got a 1:05.803 in case the page doesn't link properly.

I got through endless dramas, some annoying, some my fault but eventually got a representative lap in that I was happy with. Too buggered to write up anything decent as Coopers are happening and Monaco F1 qualy is on soon, so later for that. I'm buggered but really feel for Sean and James who are probably still on the road heading back to QLD and VIC respectively.

[sambb]

Lap Times

Here's the link up of each of the lap times. You can see that I was nowhere until I got a couple of unimpeded laps at the end and bunged in a couple of quickies.

[sambb]

Big thanks to ClubVW for putting together the dub nats track day that was held on the 26th at SMSP South Circuit. There was a good mix of road registered cars like mine, HayDen, Seangti's, with the modern brigade of R's and Golf GTi's, lots of trailered mk1/2/3 golfs and then the serious workshop cars.
I had a pretty hard time of it all day really. On the warm up lap I got stuck in neutral between 3rd and 4th in a replay of what was happeneing at Wakefield in January. The linkage was fine and hadn't popped out and obviously the fluid for the clutch slave wasn't hot which left me thinking its the box. I had a bad feeling it'd happen again so I added some throw to the lateral linkage (its all adjustable now) and did a reset on the linkage lengths as a precaution. That compromised the first session a bit because I ws very ginger on the shifts to check that everything was ok. Turns out it was ok and never troubled me again. Also In the first two sessions I just couldn't get the car handling. I was understeering on corner entry despite having put the rear bar to hard which had me scratching my head and I probably persisted with that for too long thinking I was driving badly. Then it dawned on me what was going on - I'd bloody well set the rear dampers wrong, I'd gone the right amount of clicks but in the wrong direction. Instead of 7 clicks out from full soft I was the same from full hard. I was running the rear dampers softer than I do on the street! I'd probably gotten side tracked because while my arm was up in the arch I found that my right rear damper has a nasty oil leak that I had to clean up - nice, so that'll have to get rectified too. So once I figured that out I got out in the next session and suddenly the car was like an old friend again - rotating on the kerbs, not much steering lock needed etc but I got trafficked really badly and couldn't get a time. In session 4 I was getting into a grove to do a quickie but on the back straight the car went dead and I lost all power. I thought I'd killed the turbo because Of a whining sound but luckily it was the bottom pipe to the IC had blown off but sort of stayed facing the other pipe so the car was still driveable. By now I was the guy going out and doing next to no laps and coming into the pits with my arm up out the window far too much. So car up on stands, belly pan off, fix the pipe back on, as aa side story found a nice water pump leak dribbling pink stuff everywhere (more dollars and effort coming up!!) and ready for the next session with one eye on the water temps this time. In this session finally with everything squared away I was keen to go for it. I did what I did back at wakefield and set my pressures higher with the aim of just doing a qualy lap because I new the traffic would get me again. Sorry to the guy behind me (I felt a bit justified in being a bit selfish by now) but I waited ages and was slow heading onto the track to build a buffer. I did an out lap and one more after that to prep the tyres and then went for it and dropped about 3 seconds from my previous best. My lap after the 1:05 would have been even better but three corners from the end a honda that had looped it drove back off the dirt and parked his car on the apex and screwed that lap so I did a cool down and came in.
So it was a day of battling through dramas (if you look at the lap times chart I only did 15 laps and got 3 or 4 clear ones), luckily getting a decent time in or I'd have been spewing and then counting the cost of all the things that need sorting now.
- rear damper
-water pump and therefore timing belt
- another revisit of the gear linkage (still think it might be the box)
- another set of semis (I took so much out of them in the first two understeer sessions that they are peeled back pretty badly)
- sort that bottom IC pipe (throw the plastic one in the bin where it belongs and do it all in aluminium)
- sort an oil cooler and get temps under control.

Pluses were that again the brakes were fine, the extra toe out was absolutely fine with the bar on hard (drifted a bit more than usual under brakes but that was fine) and the car pivoted nicely, the new tune was hammering (big thanks to Dave Howlett for that) , and I learnt a pretty glaring lesson on how critiacal rear damping is to a FWD. Now hopefully for some 215's (which needs a rethink on my spacers etc) and I should be able to really go for it at wakefield soon once I spend a million dollars on it and fix all the little reliability gremlins. Hillclimbing was so much easier - so much less wear and tear!!
anyway that's the deal. Great day. Sorry to anyone who came up for a chat that didn't get much of one from me - I was always putting out fires and a bit preoccupied. Was good to meet a few more people from other parts of the forum and put faces to names.

[sambb]

Gary I've got a chassis question for you. For me to fit 215's on my 7in rims and get them to fit under the arches (particularly at the back) I'll have to run thinner spacers front and back. If there's a gain in going up from 205's to 215's with mechanical grip, will it not be negated by having to shrink the front track by 20 mm and rear track by over 30mm to get them to fit? If the net gain comes down on the side of staying with 205's and retaining a wider track I'd do it. The only time at south circuit that I was traction limited under power was coming out of the hairpin in second. But it was sliding laterally a far bit on the down hill off camber left hander that lead down to the hairpin which 215's would probably help with. Curious what you think.

[sambb]

Club VW Supersprint Sydney Motorsport Park Amaroo Supersprint
Qualifying S1 Scheduled Start 00:01	Page 1 Issue 1 Start Sat May 26 09:31 Elapsed Time 06:52:29
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________ Pos Car Driver Competitor/Team Vehicle Cap CL Laps Fastest...Lap Gap 1 258 Stephen Hooker Stephen Hooker Jedi 7C 17 14 0:57.8420* 2 99 David Isaacs David Isaacs Mitsubushi EVO 9 RS X 37 20 1:01.5150 0:03.6730 3 75 Stephen Muller Stephen Muller Golf X 19 13 1:01.7800 0:03.9380 4 81 Mariano Loisso Mariano Loisso Mitsubushi EVO 10 X 18 17 1:02.2630 0:04.4210 5 50 Reece McIntosh Reece McIntosh Golf R 3C 17 11 1:02.4620 0:04.6200 6 771 Ray Bromley Ray Bromley Clubman 7B 23 18 1:03.0170 0:05.1750 7 23 Alphonsus Fok Alphonsus Fok Golf R C 27 21 1:03.2270 0:05.3850 8 9 Paul Muller Paul Muller Golf R X 5 5 1:03.4240 0:05.5820 9 96 Rudi Frank Rudi Frank Beetle 5A 34 27 1:04.1810 0:06.3390 10 77 Michael Busdon Michael Busdon Golf X 17 17 1:04.2880 0:06.4460 11 912 Greg Jones Greg Jones Locost 7B 13 10 1:05.2830 0:07.4410 12 14 Uwe Seil Uwe Seil Golf R 3C 26 25 1:05.3120 0:07.4700 13 216 Sam Beeby Sam Beeby Polo gti 2C 15 14 1:05.8030 0:07.9610 14 1 Paul Zanello Paul Zanello J&S Buggy 7B 36 21 1:06.0340 0:08.1920 15 33 Jamie Hanson Jamie Hanson Scirroco X 26 8 1:06.4330 0:08.5910 16 97 Kris Muller Kris Muller Golf X 31 28 1:06.4840 0:08.6420 17 736 Peter Lenard Peter Lenard Clio 2B 28 7 1:06.7400 0:08.8980 18 8 Sean Egan Sean Egan Polo gti X 26 23 1:06.7750 0:08.9330 19 03 Sebastian Najder Sebastian Najder Golf R32 X 17 15 1:06.8160 0:08.9740 20 82 Arno Breutmann Arno Breutmann Golf 3C 28 16 1:06.9460 0:09.1040 21 721 Warren Bell Warren Bell Stanza 5B 16 3 1:06.9620 0:09.1200 22 55 David La David La MX5 2B 28 26 1:07.0910 0:09.2490 23 88 Dung Lam Dung Lam Golf X 28 14 1:07.1930 0:09.3510 24 320 Leigh Parker Leigh Parker Golf gti 3C 27 22 1:07.2500 0:09.4080 25 39 Ron Madafiglio Ron Madafiglio BMW M3 X 19 18 1:07.2980 0:09.4560 26 38 Anthony Trinh Anthony Trinh MX5 X 31 17 1:07.4670 0:09.6250 27 49 Glenn Dorrenboom Glenn Dorrenboom Mirage 3B 28 25 1:07.9700 0:10.1280 28 751 Hugh McKinley Hugh McKinley Beetle 3C 22 21 1:08.2690 0:10.4270 29 12 Hayden Boyd Hayden Boyd Golf X 30 24 1:08.4040 0:10.5620 30 149 Luke Dorrenboom Luke Dorrenboom Mirage 3B 29 23 1:08.5030 0:10.6610 31 974 Mathew Cameron Mathew Cameron Fabia 3C 18 14 1:08.7320 0:10.8900 32 20 Peter Davies Peter Davies Audi S4 X 29 28 1:08.7770 0:10.9350 33 106 Jak Rizzo Jak Rizzo Beetle 6B 14 10 1:08.8320 0:10.9900 34 154 Chris Davies Chris Davies Audi S4 X 33 26 1:08.9260 0:11.0840 35 10 Emrie Ala Emrie Ala Golf R X 24 15 1:09.3220 0:11.4800 36 180 Stephen Carter Stephen Carter 180SX X 18 15 1:09.3660 0:11.5240 37 28 Manuel Vassalo Manuel Vassalo Golf gti X 21 15 1:09.3880 0:11.5460 38 171 Ayden Cowley Ayden Cowley Ibiza 3B 33 33 1:09.6180 0:11.7760 39 311 Sean Eaton Sean Eaton Integra 2B 31 15 1:09.6710 0:11.8290 40 68 James Woodward James Woodward Golf 3A 29 15 1:09.6730 0:11.8310 41 119 Stephan Bergner Stephan Bergner CRX 3A 27 23 1:09.9670 0:12.1250 42 3 Arthur Muzelenga Arthur Muzelenga Integra 2B 26 23 1:10.0800 0:12.2380 43 67 Nic Stone Nic Stone Polo gti 1C 26 23 1:10.3700 0:12.5280 44 44 Joshua Clifton Joshua Clifton BMW 135i 2D 23 13 1:10.4310 0:12.5890 45 112 Riley MacQueen Riley MacQueen Commodore 2D 26 24 1:10.4600 0:12.6180 46 120 Jordan Bevacqua Jordan Bevacqua Golf 3A 23 16 1:10.5630 0:12.7210 47 161 Stephen Monkhouse Stephen Monkhouse Commodore 5B 18 17 1:10.6150 0:12.7730 48 71 David Cowley David Cowley Ibiza 3B 25 14 1:10.6230 0:12.7810 49 87 Matthew Wright Matthew Wright Golf 5A 29 25 1:10.9310 0:13.0890 50 008 Alexander Brasier Alexander Brasier Polo X 17 14 1:11.1520 0:13.3100 51 303 David Carter David Carter Beetle X 13 13 1:11.1600 0:13.3180 52 31 Grahame Rumballe Grahame Rumballe Golf 3A 29 15 1:11.1620 0:13.3200 53 47 Brendan Margetts Brendan Margetts Mazda MX5 X 18 14 1:11.2170 0:13.3750 54 56 Paul Wright Paul Wright Golf 5A 27 24 1:11.2990 0:13.4570 55 744 Nick Willmot Nick Willmot Toyota 86 X 26 17 1:11.3040 0:13.4620 56 11 George Geshos George Geshos Beetle X 15 9 1:11.9530 0:14.1110 57 800 Matthew White Matthew White Polo X 42 12 1:12.3820 0:14.5400 58 91 Chris Webster Chris Webster Golf gti 1B 26 24 1:13.1170 0:15.2750 59 144 David Grant David Grant Golf Mark 3 3D 33 33 1:13.1840 0:15.3420 60 34 Brad Woodhams Brad Woodhams Astra 3B 28 16 1:14.0310 0:16.1890 61 711 Paul Fenech Paul Fenech Beetle 2A 23 21 1:14.1010 0:16.2590 62 45 Ben Ellis Ben Ellis MX5 1B 24 23 1:14.1170 0:16.2750 63 22 Craig Hughes Craig Hughes Golf 3B 3 3 1:14.3730 0:16.5310 64 76 Noel Dore Noel Dore Beetle 3B 23 10 1:15.6380 0:17.7960 65 333 Junhong Shen Junhong Shen Golf 2C 20 19 1:15.7430 0:17.9010 66 812 Miki Poposki Miki Poposki Falcon 3D 20 12 1:16.3520 0:18.5100 67 111 Paul Geshos Paul Geshos Beetle 5B 12 12 1:16.6300 0:18.7880 68 281 Danny O'Leary Danny O'Leary Civic 3A 13 6 1:17.4910 0:19.6490 69 61 Nicholas Bunck Nicholas Bunck Beetle 3B 17 8 1:17.9590 0:20.1170 70 51 Geoffrey Farrant Geoffrey Farrant Datsun 1200 3A 2 1 1:18.1960 0:20.3540 71 4 Ian Chantrey Ian Chantrey Torana 1C 16 12 1:18.5320 0:20.6900 72 17 Joanne Bell Joanne Bell Mini 5A 8 8 1:19.8740 0:22.0320

[sambb]

216 Sam Beeby 1:13.4860 1:10.0740 *:**.**** 1:09.8890 1:08.4150 1:08.2790 1:18.3540 *:**.**** 1:10.9160 1:11.1130
10 *:**.**** 1:14.4930 1:06.3110 1:05.8030 1:13.7840



These are the lap times with each session broken by the asterix. copied from natsoft.

[Sydneykid]

Gary I've got a chassis question for you. For me to fit 215's on my 7in rims and get them to fit under the arches (particularly at the back) I'll have to run thinner spacers front and back. If there's a gain in going up from 205's to 215's with mechanical grip, will it not be negated by having to shrink the front track by 20 mm and rear track by over 30mm to get them to fit? If the net gain comes down on the side of staying with 205's and retaining a wider track I'd do it. The only time at south circuit that I was traction limited under power was coming out of the hairpin in second. But it was sliding laterally a far bit on the down hill off camber left hander that lead down to the hairpin which 215's would probably help with. Curious what you think.

Nor sure that I understand the question Sam, a 215 is ~10 mm wider than a 205, so they add 0 mm to the track (if measured to the centre of the tyre) but they add 5 x 2 = 10 mm (if measured to the outside of the tyre). If you take 5 mm off the spacers, so that the tyres clear you are back to the same "outside" tyre track, which is all that really matters. The bonus is you have 10 mm more tyre contact patch ie; ~5% more.

The cheap solution would be to swap the front 20 mm spacers to the rear to reduce the rear track by 10 x 2 = 20 mm, but you would get 5 x 2 = 10 mm back with the wider tyre. Or you could spend a bit more and buy a pair of 25 mm spacers. Plus buy a pair of 15 mm spacers (~$75 with longer wheel bolts) for the front to replace the 20 mm ones, leaving the outside of a 215 in same place as a 205 with 20 mm spacer. Am I missing something?


Cheers
Gary

[HaydEn]

Good stuff Sam!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sambb]

Gary track is measured across from rim centre to rim centre isn't it. If I got that wrong then my thought process is all wrong on this one. My problem with 215's at the current spacing I use is the extra tyre width and guard clearance. I've had it setup for when I was running the 195 softs and even with the 205's on there its proud of the guard a bit at the front and right out beyond the guard lip at the back. At the back the only thing stopping guard/tyre contact is how stiff it is. So if I run 215's I'm going to have to shift the rims inboard to get the outer face of the tyre somewhere between where the 195's and 205's sit. But if I do that I'm reducing track yeah. I was just wondering if the track width reduction to accommodate the wider rubber (20mm front and back eg 10mm off each side is what is needed) will be detrimental.

That then got me thinking about how I would set the spacers if I run a staggered set up ie 215's on the front and 205's on the back. If track widths are measured rim centre to rim centre, if possible would I aim to set the track widths front and back the same which means the outside of the front tyre will sit wider than the rears. OR do you set it up so that the outside of the tyres line up, which might mean that the rear track is a smidgen wider than the front since the rears tyres are a tad narrower.

So because I'm limited by guard clearances I just wanted to check that 215's will outclass the 205's given the fact that I'll have to reduce track to get them to fit.