Sam's build thread

[metalhead]

Nice! That's moving, very well done!

[sambb]

Thanks fellas. Was the best day. I actually had continual problems with the shift linkage jamming - the plastic bit with the two channels in it that the forge short shifter slides through. It kept 'un-lipping' and jumping out of its tracks and either getting stuck going up into 4th or worse, stuck trying to come down out of 4th into 3rd which was very scary coming through turn 1 (the kink). I think the heat was getting to the part and also the bush on that linkages shaft was shot and had too much free play. I never actually did more than 5 laps in each session which was a bummer, and it wasn't very confidence inspiring having the slop taken out of it with a cable tie and a plastic washer. I'm glad I was able to get the time that I did in the reduced running, and I feel like I did a 12hr or something compared to the fleeting seat time you get in hillclimbs, so I'm still stoked with the day. I'm guzzling coopers like water presently so I'll type up a better report later when I'm a bit more with it.

Natsoft results here: Result
F**k yeah....7th overall!

[sambb]

and props to my mate in his Clio RS w172 atmo 2L with a 1:12.37..

[sambb]

quick shift position in neutral.
and in 3rd. Note how the trailing edge of the quick shift is further forward than the pivot on the linkage that hold on the plastic slider.
This is how much free play was in the slider though. What was happening was that when I'd go to grab 4th or more commonly come down from 4th to 3rd, the quickshift would turn CW and jam the slider when in 4th. Whenever it jammed I would come back to the pits to find the white slider twisted 90 degrees so that its channels were perpendicular to the quickshift and either wedged at its end or wedged outside of its rails. I nearly went off at the end of the main straight because of it. I had grabbed 4th and was about to shift down to third when just through the kink and it was wedged in 4th. I had no compression braking and had to haul it down with the brakes only. Lucky that on that lap I'd been held up coming onto the straight so I had a bit to spare and kept it on the track but I could have ended up in the sandpit if i'd been on a flyer. On two occasions I managed to get into 4th on the back straight - once ended up being my fastest lap and the second time it wedged in 4th and I went straight into the pits, but more often it happened at the kink and I'd have to do a whole lap in 4th before coming in. It came good once while I was on the way in and I kept going but all other times I had to come in. Its that $2 dollar part letting you down story. Anyone had this happen before? or know of aftermarket steel sliders? Can't afford the proper diesel geek shifter so i'll have to make up something if there's no off the shelf alternative to reinforce the slider. In the mean time i'll have to put the stock shifter back in which has longer rails for the slider to engage on and maybe what i'll end up doing is drilling/tapping the stock shifter to turn it into a quick shift.

[sambb]

I've got to start by saying that Wakefield is such a great circuit for our cars or probably any hatchback for that matter. I love the main straight that runs through the kink before the braking area. In the hillclimbs there are a few spots where you have fast kinks like that before a braking area that have always in nerved me a bit - namely through the kink into the 'cutting' at Bathurst and the kink at Huntley, so this was good practice for that. My favourite part of the track was the run down hill after the top corner. Before the only proper left hander there's a right hander (can't remember what turn it is) where I could be beyond the painted curb and onto the concrete and have full throttle pinned and use the LSD to rip through there before climbing on the brakes for the tight left with the arse squirming around under brakes - so fun. The parts I never figured out were the top sweeping corner (was doing it in third by trying to back it through) but was always unsure if I should have been going back to second, and also the last corner before coming onto the main straight. It wasn't till the very end of the day when I was following my mate in his Clio who had just had tuition that I discovered how wrong I was doing that.
Apart from never being able to do more than 4 or 5 timed laps (I think I only did 3 when I did my quickest run) because of the linkage drama, I really stuffed myself by requesting to go into the same group as my mate in his Clio. I'd wanted to sort of tail him and free load off his tuition to learn the lines, but didn't realise how badly the traffic was going to affect me. Ours was the third fastest group but when there are guys in the second fastest group doing 1:15's, I realised that I'd stuffed up badly. I can honestly say that I never strung 2 unimpeded laps together or if I did get a clear lap it was one where I was really compromised coming onto the straight. Another time you'd get a good run down the straight and think alright I'm into it but the guy you were overtaking couldn't find it in themselves to just lift for a split second and let you through cleanly so you'd be side by side going through the kink that would mess up turn 2 for you. I guess that's the big advantage of Hillclimbs the fact that you have the track to yourself and I really underestimated how frustrating it'd be to negotiate traffic. Atleast next time i'll have a natsoft time and will go into a more suited group where there'll maybe more free track. When I did my quickest time I basically went out like it was a qualifying session. I'd put the linkage back together for the second time and thought that I might only get one more session out of it, so I actually put air into the tyres so that I went out on 29psi knowing that I'd only get 3/4/5 laps before it broke again. I staged up as soon as we were called so I could get out the front and let a pulsar get miles down the road, wieved like a mofo to get heat into the tyres and then just went for it hillclimb style on the first timed lap. I was punching kurbs and managed to get most of it right. On the back straight I climbed the kurb and took it with only a slight lift so that I was in fourth before the hairpin for the first time, nailed the lap and then the linkage seized again when I tried to down shift at the kink. I trundled around the next lap stuck in 4th, it came good I went around again and then had to come in. Not a circuit smooth style at all, more like a hillclimb lap but it was so fun. I did the same at the end of the day too and I thought it was quicker but apparently not, probably because morning temps were more favourable.
A bit about the suspension later - have kids climbing all over me presently, but I'm still on such a high from such a top day and can't wait to get back there with a reliable car and really put in a lot of laps.

PS - thanks for the tip on the cabins Andrew. We had a whole cabin to ourselves the night before with many beers looking at the view and getting pumped for the day ahead.

[metalhead]

Awesome! Wish I could've been there with you. Slightly different compared to a hillclimb isn't it! I had a far less successful day than you (believe it or not), and still had a great time and really want to go again when I get the brakes and a couple of other things sorted. I want to make it to one of the days in Feb, probably the 24th, you interested?

[sambb]

Oh man I'd love to. We'll go down again this year for sure but probably in spring. Can you do mid week days there? Yeah it's a different animal to hillclimbs. There's no pressure, it's not as intense or risky. Both are a major rush when you nail a good lap though. I definitely needed that seat time to learn the new suspension though. If I'd waited until griffons bend at panorama to work out how it turned in I'd have hit the wall! Very taily. Pete said it looked like I was in a rwd but once I got to grips with it it was insane. Still not sure about cold tyres with low pressures in the hillclimbs but I basically have a new car. We're still deciding what we'll run before Bathurst but I'll let you know either wAy.

[metalhead]

That's actually why I want to get down there again soonish myself. I'd really like some more seat time to get a better handle on how my car reacts at higher speeds, preferably before heading to Bathurst which is rather less forgiving... Yes, there is an event on Tues 13th Feb also, I could probably do that instead.

[sambb]

The car was running a F:R track of 1470:1451. That's with ET40 7in rims and 12mm spacers on the front and 20mm spacers on the rear. The rear tyres were 10mm outside of the guards but never touched, but the guards will have to be rolled for me to avoid a possible protest from a certain d**k at the hillclimbs. The front track was wider again because with 3 degrees neg camber on the front, the tuck at the top of the wheels allowed the wider spacers to fit.
Front alignment was 4mm toe out, 3 degrees neg both sides, 5/1/4 pos castor. Rear camber was a rear beam dictated 1/1/2 neg camber and 2.5mm toe in on each side so 5mm total toe in. I'd run out of time to refit eibach shims and having experienced the car with that much toe in I'd be a little nervous to go more than zero toe to be honest especially considering Bathurst. This setup worked beautifully. My A050's medium had really uniform wear and weren't chundering the sidewalls like what was happening previously, although you do deliberately run underpressure in hillclimbs to find more cold grip which wouldn't help that.
The front suspension was 7kg/mm springs, whiteline front bar on soft and rear was 8kg/mm springs with whiteline bar on medium. Even given the rear toe in I don't think I could have put the rear bar on hard unless the front went up a notch with it. It was my plan to change all this but the linkage drama took up every second of my time between sessions so I couldn't play. Even the dampers remained unchanged from the mca recommended settings which were probably more street centric too but may have been spot on for curb riding. But it was riding the curbs well and the front grip was very good so I left it alone as all the time was either in me or just getting clear track.
Again I have to say a massive thanks to Sydneykid - Gary. I was hesitant to go that stiff on the rear springs and run that much bar simultaneously without his assurance, and really wouldn't have known what front springs to spec. It was so unreal to finally drive a car that did what I wanted it to do. It was on rails when I needed it to be but a little lift or a dab of the brakes and it would move around just the way I needed - it was actually adjustable rather than me being the passenger like before. If you do end up going to Bathurst Gary there will be drinks for you.

remaining jobs on the suspension are finding front springs that have less coils. The front of the car is so high (basically stock) that the springs are preloaded to the point where the coils were coil binding before the damper was into the bump stop. I had to wind the dampers shafts up to prevent this but ate into lots of my travel to make it safe. The new springs will cure that. I'll also sort the rear toe. Shims are in the garage so just need a night in the garage to attack it - again! I'll also look at fitting the UR 4 point brace. Its not going to be possible without mods to get it to fit around the subframe Eddy sleeves on the back of it, so that'll be a bit of a fab job but worth doing I think. Oh and roll the rear guards.

Oh and the wavetrac was flawless. Despite curb jumping it seemed to stay locked. The only place I struggled for drive was the left hander after coming down the hill. I was told after that I should probably have been throwing it in there in 3rd which would have cured that but as it was, in 2nd I had to short shift up to 3rd to get a good run towards the back straight and really concentrate on feeding in the throttle progressively.

[Stuwey]

nigg

I'll also look at fitting the UR 4 point brace. Its not going to be possible without mods to get it to fit around the subframe Eddy sleeves on the back of it, so that'll be a bit of a fab job

Hi mate - great writeup, sounds like you had a blast and it's always nice when the car largely plays along - even if there's some niggling issues.

FYI, I had the UR brace and Eddy's spacers in mine - no interference.


Cheers,

[sambb]

Hey Stuwey - yeah - I couldn't picture the 1in adjusters head fitting in the socket. sweet! I'll get that fitted sooner rather than later then. thx

[sambb]

tonight I had a little look into the linkage problem. First up, when I compared the position of the sliders channels between the forge quickshift (bottom) and stock shifter, it can be seen that the slider channel extends further clockwise on the stocker. This was when the keyway in their splines were lined up.

The other difference is that the forge and also another audi shifter I have both have a bevel on the lower edge, whereas the stocker doesn't. The bevel is not at the end of the shifter that was the problem ( not where mine was jumping out) but suggests maybe that these quicksifts are tailored more for the audi fitments? The forge units channels are just that little bit shorter on the right edge too - the edge that was the problem.

The linkage on the left is off a later model box (seans that was an '08 box). On the right is the one I was running on my '06 HWY. Differences are that one is resin and one is steel. The resin one doesn't use plastic bushes on its main shaft. Its resin shaft is the bushing. Also the resin versions slider is shorter lengthways but is very stiff - it has limited range if you twist it, whereas the HWY version tilts to nearly 30 degrees and can be spun around like that and feels very sloppy in comparison. I decided to swap to the later model resin version because it was a much tighter fit into the gearbox with less play in its pivot/main shaft and because although shorter, its slider feels much stronger and the slider on the linkage I've been using/breaking has been damaged.

So here is the main source of the problem I think. On the left is the forge quickshift in 3rd gear and on the right is the stocker. Both linkages were given a fresh cable setup after instal so the only variation in where the slider is sitting is due to variation in where each shifters channels extend to. Both shifters have exactly the same channel length but the whole channel is rotated further CCW on the forge unit allowing the slider to nearly come out the back. So I'm back to the stock shifter coupled with a later model resin linkage. What i'll do this week is modify the stock shifter and turn it into a quickshift by modifying the pin position. I may be able to just drill and tap the pin that came with the forge quickshift into it 5mm further in. That way i'll get the best channel position and have a short shift again.

[sambb]

Ok so I just went down to Eibach, Sydney in Warriewood and had a chat to them regarding a change of spring spec on my fronts. My issue stems maybe from the way the first Polo that got measured up for MCA's was expected to be set up. If the car was to be run low then all is good. For the track though, with the front of the car 325+mm up (hub centre to guard lip) which gives the geometry I need - it could go higher actually - the 180mm free length springs end up being preloaded to a captive height of less than 150mm. This meant that the distance between the coils was reduced to the extent that the coils could coil bind before the damper body was even into the bump stop which = crash. To remedy that, the damper body was wound up - you can do this with MCA's, adjust the damper stroke and ride height independently - so that it would be into the stop before coil bind, but the result is that I have minimised the travel by like 30mm. Like Gary suggested I put cable ties around the damper shafts and sure enough even with street driving the cable ties were finding there way 1/2 way into the 20mm bump stops without any really memorable pot holes, so yeah the travel is too small and a good hit when its already compressed under a cornering load would be a problem. The inside wheel never felt like it bottomed out going over the kerbs at Wakefield but it does concern me for doing the esses hillclimb at Bathurst. For example when you throw the car right straight up the face of the dipper, the compression in the front would be pretty full on on both the fronts.
So I explained all this to the guy at Eibach and we crunched some numbers. He said that if I was to go to a 200mm spring rather than a 180mm spring then the spring would only need to be preloaded by 10mm to achieve the same ride height. I could then drop the damper body down by a corresponding amount which is also incidently about the width of the bump stop and get back to an ideal compression:droop ratio. The problem is though, this will put the adjustment collars right next to the tyre sidewall so i'll need to get under there and see if it'll clear. If not my options are to change to different offset street rims because I'm sure the track rims with spacers will clear, or as Gary has said to me go to a higher quality spring that achieves the same spring rate for the same free length that presently fits (150mm) but does it with fewer coils - obviously thinner coils would be needed which would need some high quality steel ($$) and I'm not sure where I could source something like that but that may be the last option.

[sambb]

actually scratch that. I just jacked the front of the car so that I could extract the cable tie tell tales from the bump stops before they get damaged and found that the left side spring (the light side of the car) is actually a few mm un-captive when the car is jacked. To my thinking that means that fitting a 200mm spring of the same rate/load would achieve nothing at least on that side. The right side is different - being heavier, it is well and truly preloaded at full droop to achieve the same ride height. Surely that means that the spring has insufficient spring load doesn't it? If it has to be really preloaded to just support the standing weight of the car at the desired ride height that is unsufficient spring load? Sure I may then need helper springs to keep it captive at full droop but I'm thinking maybe that is the answer??

[sambb]

Hey Stuwey. From memory when you fitted the 4 point brace, did you have to remove these black plates that link the chassis to the subframes ie did the brace just go over the top of the plates or did you have to remove them altogether. Can you remember if the hex adjustment for the eccentrics was on the outside of the braces tube with the bolt to tighten on the inside OR was the hex adjuster AND the bolt both inside the braces tube?