Sam's build thread

[sambb]

So I just finally received my studs, conical nuts (for the track rims) and ball seat nuts (for the OE rims).

Need advice - what seating torque do you put on the studs so that they stay put when you are rattling the nuts off? Do you use Loctite thread locker and if so medium or strong?

Its going to be a joy for the broken discs in my back to be able to just hang the spacers and rims on them and the only things i'll need to swap over will be the nuts for the race rims. Carrying around 3 different length/type wheel bolts for the different spacers/rims I use will hopefully be a distant memory once I get these set up.

[Sydneykid]

We use ARP screw in studs and their recommended torque setting is 75 ft lbs. On a hub I'd be using a high temperature resistant Loctite, say 272. Higher locking strength than you need, but temp is more important.


Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

Thats 100Nm which is the spec torque setting for the wheel bolts - makes sense. Not sure if that's safely achievable with the small 5mm in-hex in the nose though. I'll see what I can get them up to before the allen key fitting turns into a noodle. Hmm 272, i'll have a look. I have 243 and 262 super stud lock which don't have rec temps on the bottle. Otherwise I'll see whats lurking around at work.

[sambb]

hmm. Just got this info from the supplier:

Torque them into your hubs to hand tight or 25ftlbs with blue loctite. Then torque the nuts to OEM. I believe it is 105ft/lbs


Let me know if you have any questions.
Cheers,

[simon k]

drool - how much?

it's like a head stud - the nut pulling on the thread is what keeps it screwed into the hub, and the torque on the nut against the wheel keeps that done up, you only need them screwed in hard enough to keep them from coming out when you undo the nuts. Do them up too tight and you're stressing the unthreaded bit between the ridge and the bottom thread... BUT the torque spec for a 14mm grade 10.9 bolt is 180Nm, so it doesn't matter what you do, you won't break it, but you might pull the threads out of the hub

[vwthunder]

I did it so long ago I cant remember

Double up 2 nuts together so you can tighten them in properly, i used a heat resistant loctite and have not had a problem for 5 years

[sambb]

yeah thats it. I'm mostly worried about the threads in the hub. The spec for the wheel bolts is 100Nm I think but I doubt I've ever done them up that tight on the well used threads. I just do them by feel with a breaker bar and check them throughout the day when I'm tracking. The threads have had a bit of a hiding with lots of in out in out over the years which is what has concerned me re the tightening torque. I always thought you just did them spark plug tight (provided they have the ridge bit to butt up against). My mate in his Clio did it that way and they havent come out with the rattle gun. Guess I can just split the difference between 100nm and the sellers 35Nm and do about 70Nm which shouldnt go wrong with the right Loctite.

I think all up with postage it was 175 bucks - thats with two sets of nuts which aint bad. That was the main reason why I bought from OS. The nuts were basically free with the studs compared to over here where the prices for nuts seemed ridiculous.
I got your 3/8in spacers in at the back Simon. Only had to file the rear beam a bit on the left side to make way for the ABS sensor but otherwise easy as. The longest time in all of it was deciding on which angle settings and fitting the eibach shims. My right rear was already at 2 degrees neg camber and -1.7mm toe out. The left rear was 1.6 degrees neg camber and -0.7mm toe out, so I basically aimed to square up the left with the right.

I'd been tape measuring the rear toe at approx. 2mm toe out total but obviously it wasn't even on each side.

So the aim is about -3.6mm total toe out (even on each side this time!) and 2 degrees neg at the rear. I had noticed that the car was far better turning left compared to right and I'd say that was why - it was hooking around corners on a nice amount of right rear toe out and less so on the left rear, and it could really be felt. That's why I tackled the subframes recently because I was sure it was due to a misalignment there, but nope it was rear toe. Starting to learn that rear toe (other than a rear bar) is king at determining the extent to which the car WANTS to turn. I haven't been back down to the aligner I use to verify the result yet but the car does feel very very nice now. Its going to kill the inside edges of the rears like that but when it wants to turn like it does now and understeer is not really something I even think about on the street anymore, then its well worth it. That's partly why I stayed on 195/55/15's just to keep the price of tyres way down as I'll be going through them that's for sure.

[Sydneykid]

Starting to learn that rear toe (other than a rear bar) is king at determining the extent to which the car WANTS to turn.

Yes, it is

I haven't been back down to the aligner I use to verify the result

For DIY (warning this is going to take me longer to type and for your to read than it actually takes to do), you need 4 axle stands, 2 pieces of 25 mm box section alloy around 2 metres is plenty and some hat elastic (better than string). Mark the centre of the alloy box section, set the axle stands at the height of the centre of the wheels and put them just behind and in front, roughly in line with the headlights and tail lights. Place the box sections on the axle stands lining up the middle of them with the middle of the car. Measure between the box sections to make sure that they are parallel. Run the hat elastic down both sides of the car and tie each end to the box sections. Measure from the centre of the rear wheels to the hat elastic and equalise it by moving the hat elastic on the box section, do the same with the front wheels. Check by measuring the distance the hat elastic is in from the ends of the alloy box section, should be the same distance so that you have a right angled oblong (then mark the locations on the box sections for next time). Measure from the extremities (front and rear) of the wheel rim to the hat elastic. Duplicate on the other side, added together that's your total toe. Check it with your toe plates.

Warned you it would take longer to type/read than do.
Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

yeah that's the next thing to nail. My front toe was correct for total mm too - bang on what I'd set it at but looking left. Actually the only reason I went to the aligner is because the RE003's aren't as baggy on the rims as the R1R's and so the toe plates I'd made were actually resting on the rims rather than the tyres themselves and were shifting a bit when I was measuring and I couldn't get repeatable numbers. Good thing I went, so yeah, I'll get that sorted.

[Sydneykid]

Front toe, side to side, doesn't matter as you just turn the steering wheel to equalise. Of course it can be annoying to have an off centre steering wheel, drives some people nuts.

So when adjusting front toe I always adjust both tie rods the same amount, keeps the steering wheel straight.

Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

ha ha yep it drives me insane when its one hand down. On the older cars you could just reposition the steering wheel 1 or 2 splines around if you were lazy but not possible with the VW steering wheel! Strangely I dont mind right hand down but left hand down does my head in.

[sambb]

Wheel stud conversion done. Ended up doing 45Nm as that was all the 5mm hex key was going to. Cleaned all the threads spick and span and used some Loctite and then torqued the nuts up to the spec factory wheel bolt setting of 120Nm! so it can all cure. I'll rattle them off tomorrow and make sure nothing budges. Makes wheels on off SOooo much easier so fitting rims, spacers etc at the track should go a hell of a lot quicker/easier now.

[sambb]

Front camber basically a shade under 3 degrees neg (more on the left front for Wakefield and Ludenham) and a shade under 6 degrees pos. caster. Total toe out of 2mm. That means I'm only 1 degree shy of the magic 10 degrees total number, so pretty happy with where all that's at.

Rear ended up a bit annoying. With the shims I'd added some neg camber to the left to square it with the right with a touch extra to both sides to try to arrive on 2 degrees neg camber from the 1.75 dgrees I was on. I finished up equal on both sides which was great but despite adding additional camber with the shims ended up on only a touch more camber than before! Same deal with the toe out. I'd previously had 2mm total toe out but was off left/right so I adjusted the shims to square them up and add a little more to try to get 3mm total. Again for some reason I ended up more or less square but didn't gain any toe, even went backwards a bit.
I did all this in conjunction with adding the 9.56mm spacers to each side so if that somehow changed the kinematics I don't know. Same alignment place, same tyres/pressures so not sure. At the end of the day those rear numbers are still pretty good and considering that no significant extra camber went on then I'm ok with the toe where it is for now. Don't have the stomach to tackle it all again right away so will just drive it and see how it goes. After all I have changed from the 22mm front bar back to the factory 20mm and I wouldn't mind assessing that on its own on the track now anyway.

Other than sorting a baffled sump (which is proving impossible to do without spending an arm and a leg) and doing something with harness/seat, I'm now pretty well done with big list things to do to the car. Just some fiddly things to do eg front anti roll bar bushes if I decide to stay with that bar, maybe an IC re jig, mucking around with rear spacers to get the track widths correct front:back with the track rims etc but more or less the car is now pretty well sorted and just ready to drive. Still cant get it out of my head to try and top Eddy at Wakefield but with a K03 and will pursue a class win in the State Hillclimbs probably until I crash the thing, so those are the aims for the year ahead.

edit: not the crashing bit!!

[metalhead]

Haha, not aiming for a crash? Going to come up for the last club hillclimb at Ringwood for the year on the 4th of November?

[sambb]

I'll have a look - I'd like too. How'd you go at Mattara?