Sam's build thread

[sambb]

I'm not kidding. caveat....if its not broken

[sambb]

Vid of my last run where I closed up by nearly 3/10ths on the leader I think but couldn't find that last 1/10th:
YouTube

[metalhead]

results from Sundays Round 6 of the NSW state Hillclimb Championship: (my class = road registered >2.5Litre). I tidied up the format a bit so it makes more sense to viewers.


109 Andrew FRASER (Regd) (MGCCN) Corvette 6.4 ltr 43.57sec 32nd overall

4.59 4.49 4.29 4.56 4.82
24.58 23.80 23.51 23.73 23.94
45.22 48.61P 43.57 43.84 43.58
Theoretically 4.29 + 19.12 + 19.64 = 43.05
--------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------

Me and the Megane RS275 RSR were the fastest FWD overall (and you'll love this Simon) except for a 3D sport sedan B16A vtec mini. My theoretical best was just off the class winners time so I cant feel too bad but I still made mistakes on the last run. First time we met he did me by 6/100ths, 2nd time I got him by half a second but he got me back again. Its 2:1. ah what could have been. Mega drive from Andrew in the Vette done by 1/100th to 3rd place by the M3. Probably one of the tightest comps Ive been in with a great group of guys so was a top day.

Thanks Sam! The one that frustrated me was the car bogging off the line on my last run. Check out my theoretical - that's my last run except for the first split...

Was a great day though. Very close competition and comradery between some very different cars.

This showed up on Facebook, AJGr33n Photography - Photos | Facebook, figured you'd like to see it:

[sambb]

ouch yeah you saved your worst launch till last didn't you. That's the thing that makes Ringwood such a big challenge. You just cant make one little mistake anywhere. Its the kind of place where you always come away knowing that you can go much quicker. For instance I've never had trouble at the kink before coming around to the finish line before but this time I was struggling through there. Late braking has never been a problem into the top left hander but this time I was never getting deep enough into there. I was apparently up against Woods throughout my last run. The commentator was saying 'I think he's got him...' but I lost it in that last sector which always used to be my strongest. Thing is though, Woods would be saying the same thing... coulda gone quicker.
Should've laid my passenger seat flat for the last run like I normally do......would there have been a tenth in that? ha ha

[metalhead]

Couldn't even be called a launch, the car just about stalled dead - check out my in car video for the last run and you'll see what I mean. You'll also hear my reaction when I heard the time announced, because I knew I'd had such a terrible start. I think a lot of the time I picked up in the last run was in the corner at the end of the top straight - I took a slightly different line and carried more speed through there on my last run.

Lol at the seat! I think Steve was a bit taken aback when I showed him my theoretical from the last run. He kept saying "That thing shouldn't be that quick"... And he's probably right, but that's part of the fun!

[sambb]

Yep its too quick now. Liam was shaking his head too. Next time at Ringwood I'm pulling the ESP fuse from the beginning. ESP screws that top downhill carousel for me. Since corvettes are so fast there, if I take off all my body panels like the Cleetus McFarland vette Kart, will I still be eligible for road reg? Cleetus has road reg! Maybe then the commentator at Ringwood will stop calling my car a Golf.

[metalhead]

Just watched your in car video, gee that thing gets around fast! So responsive in the corners, as expected, but it really accelerates hard too. I actually think yours looks quite a bit quicker on the in car video than mine, it especially makes the way mine rolls through the corners look rather lazy. Good work.

Have you watched the in car from the Eski Sports Sedan, or Tim Blakes WRX yet? I love how differently all the cars behave and respond, and what different lines are taken in different parts of the track.

I re-watched my videos from last year too - the bumpsteer kit (and maybe tyres) seems to have improved the steering a bit, and the other tyres were definitely more consistent off the line, but really it looks very similar overall - to be expected since I really haven't done anything else to the car.

Oh, and lol at the commentator calling your car a Golf! Cleetus is also in the US... They seem to get away with a lot over there that would put you in gaol here!

[sambb]

Yeah mines a little handful. The reason why it looks so chaotic is because obviously you start feeding in the power as early as you can at the apex but once the boost hits and you still have lots of lock on, you have to unwind it as torque steer is really kicking in. The wavetrac LSD coupled with the decent amount of rim offset means the steering wants to stay wound on pulling you into the corner so there's a fair bit of wheel fight to get it straightened up again. None of this RWD just letting the wheel glide through your hands stuff ha ha. Its nothing like that on a circuit though. The tune has added a heap more midrange and I'd say it was a bit more of a handful. Actually you know what, the last Ringwood state round when the track was very quick, I had the LSD in but was still only on the B8's and on a generic tune and stock turbo/mani and did a 43.05. Track was really slow this year eg Liam set the track record last year but was nowhere this year on an identical setup. I'm starting to think that your Nankangs whilst not appearing to be as quick as you'd have liked have been very handicapped by slow tracks. What tyres did Jeff's M3 have - I mean you were mixing it with a freakin M3 so you're doing something right. At least I know theres a lot more in the car now and now that my softs have ticked over to 4 years old and are shredded anyway, I think a wider set of boots will really bring the times down. I'm still frothing for a class win - a bit sick of being a bridesmaid for the last 3 or so years, so I'm starting to consider Tamworth as a possibility after writing it off.
Yeah I'll check out the other vids now that a couple are going up.
I raised my car up further before this event. The roll centre can only get better but I mostly did it to try to get the steering arms closer to level to improve the bump steer. 10mm extra front ride height has really made a noticeable difference. Car can look a bit odd especially when all the weight goes back in it and you have a full tank of fuel but I couldn't care less - feels great.
Yeah i'll keep the panels on or they might start calling it a Golf cart.

[metalhead]

Yeah mines a little handful. The reason why it looks so chaotic is because obviously you start feeding in the power as early as you can at the apex but once the boost hits and you still have lots of lock on, you have to unwind it as torque steer is really kicking in. The wavetrac LSD coupled with the decent amount of rim offset means the steering wants to stay wound on pulling you into the corner so there's a fair bit of wheel fight to get it straightened up again. None of this RWD just letting the wheel glide through your hands stuff ha ha. Its nothing like that on a circuit though. The tune has added a heap more midrange and I'd say it was a bit more of a handful. Actually you know what, the last Ringwood state round when the track was very quick, I had the LSD in but was still only on the B8's and on a generic tune and stock turbo/mani and did a 43.05. Track was really slow this year eg Liam set the track record last year but was nowhere this year on an identical setup. I'm starting to think that your Nankangs whilst not appearing to be as quick as you'd have liked have been very handicapped by slow tracks. What tyres did Jeff's M3 have - I mean you were mixing it with a freakin M3 so you're doing something right. At least I know theres a lot more in the car now and now that my softs have ticked over to 4 years old and are shredded anyway, I think a wider set of boots will really bring the times down. I'm still frothing for a class win - a bit sick of being a bridesmaid for the last 3 or so years, so I'm starting to consider Tamworth as a possibility after writing it off.

I don't think your in-car looks that chaotic to be honest, you're doing much less wild movements of the wheel than I am! But you are working harder than some of the other in car vids, some of the Commodore in cars look like they take a lot less effort!

You may be right on the Nankangs. I've been wondering similar things - I was forgetting/not accounting for the amount of improvements you've done to your car. Steve Woods has always been one of my markers, but I have no idea what changes and improvements he may have been making too. Disregarding my one-off much quicker first split, the Continentals were ~0.4s slower last year at the state round than the Nankangs this year. Given the track conditions, this may be a bigger improvement than I'm giving it credit.

On the other hand... Jeff was running on AD08Rs on Sunday, and beat his PB by 0.2s, that he had set on brand new AR-1s at the CAMS Club Challenge on a much warmer day in Feb! Of course he only bought the car at the start of they year, and in addition to lots more seat time has probably made a number of changes to the car since then. Also, James Pearson swapped out his AR-1s for some 3 year old NT01s, and went 2 seconds quicker than 2 weeks before - but then I picked up 1.4s over 2 weeks before myself, on the same tyres... Dunno!

I was gonna ask you about Tamworth. Would be great to have you come up for a run! Then again, you'll probably beat me again, so I should encourage you to stay home!

I raised my car up further before this event. The roll centre can only get better but I mostly did it to try to get the steering arms closer to level to improve the bump steer. 10mm extra front ride height has really made a noticeable difference. Car can look a bit odd especially when all the weight goes back in it and you have a full tank of fuel but I couldn't care less - feels great.
Yeah i'll keep the panels on or they might start calling it a Golf cart.

Lol at the golf cart! I've been wondering about how much improvement might have been due to the bumpsteer blocks (which I installed on Thursday night before the State round) as well. They definitely improved how the car drives on the patched roads near home, and I wondered whether I was feeling an improvement over the hump out of turn 3 as well. On the other hand, i did lose a bit of steering ratio with the change, which I missed. Hard to say with the advantage of the home track also being a pretty big factor, but it's interesting how I leapfrogged Liam and Riley who have been fairly comfortably quicker than me all year.

On the stance vs geometry - you may have noticed the rear of my car is a fair bit higher than the front - that is where I need to have it to maintain less terrible geometry in the rear. To lower it and maintain geometry I need to lift the differential higher in the body, which I'll probably do at some point, but hasn't neared the top of my priority list yet.

[sambb]

Steve in the Megane said that he got rid of the 245 width R888's he had on there and went to fresh 235 width R888R's. I thought the normal 888's were the same compound as the new but he swore they were significantly different. He just edged me first time we met when I was on strut B8's, the second time I properly beat him because I guess I'd gotten used to the car and hadn't just rebuilt it, but this time around he was quicker. So I guess tyres got him up there. Makes my 195's look pretty pissy. I was talking to Graham who said that he noticed his car had a completely different exhaust note too. It used to crackle and fart but now its very muted so he's likely made some changes there and tuned for it to. I still think I can do him again if I get some proper tyres under me. I must admit I was a little rusty this time around as its been a long while since I've been up there - next year i'll do practice and stay up there I think.
With Liam I think changing from mediums to softs was enough for him last year to get that record but everyone is tweaking and fine tuning and getting quicker and he's probably stagnated a bit on that front since the bubs came along. I just love that we did quicker times than Geoffs >3L improved production class. Yeah we weren't exactly at Bathurst but its good to do that from time to time. At Ringwood I've noticed that when grip is low its very hard to catch the imp prod 4wd and road reg 4wd cars but when grip is good we can be right there with them. They had it over us which I think is proof that it was slippery and probably why Geoff and the Poteris's weren't smashing it.
I'll have to walk the wifey tightrope and work out the work roster, soccer roster etc to see if I can make it up there to Tamworth. Is that the next round or is it Huntley/Dapto?

[metalhead]

Tamworth is the next round, 19th August. There's another club round at Ringwood on the 29th of July too, A2A layout.

Yeh, I've read the R888Rs are significantly quicker than the R888s, but don't last as well.

Liam did make some changes to get some extra horsepower before Kempsey, his car isn't totally unchanged. I think our class has been quicker than Improved Prod at most rounds this year. Geoff was observing that changing his car from a road car to a race car (Improved Production) resulted in him having more weight, less tyre, and less downforce...

[metalhead]

Oh I was thinking on the way home too... If you want to camp out at my place and/or change the wheels and tyres on my hoist next time you're heading to Ringwood then just give us a yell. You probably wont want to drive 15 minutes past Ringwood to my place if you're driving up on the morning of an event, but it might make things a bit easier when you're worn out before heading home.

[Sydneykid]

FWIW, my view is that tyres are the single most important ingredient in going faster. It takes a lot of horsepower (and $'s) to go a second faster at Easter Creek, which can be achieved by simply bolting on a set of new tyres. Compared to ones that have been through a few heat cycles, not worn out tyres, just those that have lost their new tyre "goodness". Yes, getting the right wheel and tyre package takes time, money and effort but the rewards are substantial.

I spent a lot of years chasing used tyres which was much easier when I had the wheel size to take the common tyre sizes. By far the most popular tyre size in the semi slick area is the 225/50/15, so my suggestion would be to look for wheels that take that size tyre, being 15 x 7, 15 x 7.5 and 15 x 8. There are few that use the 215/50/15, which will fit that same sized wheel. The next most common is the 225/45/16 so again 16 x 7, 16 x 7.5 or 16 x 8. The problem with 17"s is the tyre gets a bit too big (width and diameter) to fit on a Polo.

Obviously wheels are just flywheels except there are 4 of them and they are unsprung weight, a triple whammy. So it pays off to spend a little extra effort to find the lightest in the desired sizes, provided they fit the budget. But a slightly heavier wheel in the right size is better than lighter one in the wrong size.

Once you have a tyre size (or a couple of sizes) locked in then I'd suggest getting along to State Championship & MRA rounds at Eastern Creek and Wakefield Park and get to know all of the guys that run those sizes. They often don't hold on to them as long when they have a ready buyer waiting.

That's my 20 cents worth

Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

Thanks Andrew. Yeah Liam and I were the very last ones out of there because of changing tyres and having to pack the cars up. Will definitely do stud conversion to help that along. Thx

[sambb]

Yeah you're dead right Gary. I think I'm going to stick with the 15x7's as I already have them and they are pretty light and run 215/50/15 mediums. It might have to be a staged process though. If no second hand ones turn up what I can do is bite the bullet and buy a front pair and keep the best of my existing 205/50/15 mediums for the back when on a circuit, working towards a full set obviously as I get the bucks. I guess on 15x7's I'll have the option for hillclimbs of putting 205/50/15 softs (commonish cheap size) on the back if it turns out that mediums won't grip.