Rust in Airbox + Bonus P0411 Code.

[AntiFun]

Hey guys,

Haven't written up an intro thread properly yet (made one about servicing . . .) but I picked up my 9n3 about a week ago now. It's the one formerly owned by "jigme". Car has a apr v2 tune, exhaust (muffler only I presume), springs, apr diverter valve, seat intake....

Car's been fine, Been loving it... But it developed a backfire when I first picked it up. Didn't think anything of it, Jigme warned me that the car needs a tune for the exhaust, which is fine because I figured I'd get that done and get the timing belt done at the same time...

Yesterday the car threw a CEL, no performance changes, no limp mode either. I checked the code today with the help of a friend, turned out to be P0411, after googling around a bit it, I should be looking for vac leaks and broken hoses relating to the emissions system....

I opened the airbox, and the whole thing was full of orange rust dust. I have no idea where it's coming from... I had to pull off a tube that connects to the top of the airbox before the MAF and that tube was full of rust aswell.....

Any thoughts guys? What should I do from here. The car drives fine as well as far as I can tell... Is it possible that the rust is coming from this tube? or doesn't the air flow that way? The filter is supposedly aftermarket as well, I guess there might be a possibility its the filter itself that developed the rust?

Currently I'm thinking I need to, clean the MAF, check the hoses post the MAF, clean all the orange dust... Don't know what to do next about the p0411 though... I have a feeling that the air filter might have rusted, and that the rusty dust has got into whatever that hose leads to that is after the filter but before the maf, which has caused the p0411? Someone please educate me if I'm wrong...

[noone]

you sure its rust? are you in Sydney? the reason I ask is that 18 months ago there was a terrible dust storm, red dust everywhere.

The code could relate to your SAI pump / valve being spent / on the way out, fair few of them going that way.

Can't think of where rust would come from, its almost all plastic around there, accept from the SAI pump... pull off the flexi pipe coming from the front of the engine to the airbox, full of the rust / dust?

[AntiFun]

I suspect it's the air filter as it didn't look like a paper filter, will get some pics in a minute. The walls of the air filter box after and before the filter are covered in orange. You can wipe the orange off with a finger... Orange like rust, has to be rust.

Ok, so I think we're describing the same thing, The SAI pump has a hose running from it into the airbox, after the filter but before the maf.

[VWindahouse]

Welcome mate! Rust, that sucks. I wonder if water has gotten into you secondary air pump (emissions related) rusted it up and blown that into the airbox. It's a long shot but water in the pump is very common as Jmac will tell you. Or as noone said it could be an ass load of red dust.

[VWindahouse]

I suspect it's the air filter as it didn't look like a paper filter, will get some pics in a minute. The walls of the air filter box after and before the filter are covered in orange. You can wipe the orange off with a finger... Orange like rust, has to be rust.

Ok, so I think we're describing the same thing, The SAI pump has a hose running from it into the airbox, after the filter but before the maf.

Yep, that's the one.

[AntiFun]

Can I disconnect the hose and block it off for a temp fix? Or is there a plug for the SAI I can unplug at least?

[Jmac]

The p0441 one is the imfamous evap code that can happen to any car, i would bet the Charcoal valve is sticking, it can be tested by VCDS in final control diagnosis, if its clicking very queitly itll be needing replaced.
Jmac

[AntiFun]

Jmac, should I be concerned of damage to the engine? Do you think I can keep running the car if I disconnect the hose? or is this an urgent straight to the mechanic thing?

Thanks for the welcome VWindahouse

Ok this is what I've found http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/...s-63711-3.html

I'll be blocking off for the moment, and I'm presuming no permanent damage, need to clean MAF and that's it. I'm lucky I caught it otherwise I'd be replacing a MAF as well. Will probably replace pump and combi valve, or delete if I have the guts...

[Jmac]

Jmac, should I be concerned of damage to the engine? Do you think I can keep running the car if I disconnect the hose? or is this an urgent straight to the mechanic thing?

Thanks for the welcome VWindahouse

After researching all night all I've found is a sai pump costs 700 bucks genuine... fml No wonder it gets deleted

With the MIl lamp code, no harm, but as i always say its best no light incase you end up maskimg any new ones, now thats for the evap, not SAI, just to clarify. However, looks like your Kombi valve for the SAI is stuffed thats wht lets the moisture from the exhaust get into the SAI pump in the first place, fair ive written a fair but about this on this forum. So as i was saying about masking any other codes, you will end up with a SAI flow code as well if that pump stuffs up.
Only way to get out of the SAI is either replace Kombi valve with gasket and new pump or blank and have the software written to suit. For the P0441 code id be checking the Charcoal canister valve that sits next to the Coolant header tank. Good chance thats the cause of your code
Jmac

[AntiFun]

I read your forum post about the issue Jmac, very good stuff, thank you very much

The code wasnt p0441, it was p0411, very similar!!! It said incorrect airflow detected.

I guess my picture demonstrates how moisture gets into the system

[Jmac]

I read your forum post about the issue Jmac, very good stuff, thank you very much

The code wasnt p0441, it was p0411, very similar!!! It said incorrect airflow detected.

I guess my picture demonstrates how moisture gets into the system

Man those codes are very similiar!! and are both flow codes relating to different systems, crazy, ok then forget checking the canister valve its all about SAI, the kombi valve and gasket. experience has shown now that the actual fault code has to be written off the table in the eeprom and resistors wont help. You can simply switch the pump off but will have a MIL lamp and problem i have with that is you wont get to see an importatnt one if it arises so best to resolve it
Good luck
Cheers
Jmac

[noone]

If it looks like that, I'd be disconnecting the SAI for the time (yes, you'll have a warning lamp, but thats better than rust / junk going past your turbo, back into your engine.

- Disconnect the electrical connector on the side of the SAI pump in front of the motor.
- I already binned the VAC stuff, , but it might be worth cutting and tieing off (folding back over itself and cable tieing to keep a seal) the vac line to the kombi valve (stands up above engine height on the right back side of the engine).

Mine has been in a state not dissimilar to this for a while, with a code... CC or APR can resolve in coding, of you can buy parts to get working again. From Jmac's comments, seems to be the Kombi valve most of the time.

[AntiFun]

I didn't consider tieing it off, like I said previously it's due for a tune, so I can get it coded out at the same time and not miss out on any other MIL/CEL lamps... sounds like a good temporary fix until I get back from overseas I guess.

When I get back I'm due for the timing belt service, so I can get it done then... Not going to go with OEM parts though, can't afford that :/

[noone]

Not sure what you expect in terms of a tune, to my knowledge APR offer a version of their stage 1 code with the exhaust sensor mapped out, but otherwise, there is no APR tune for a modded exhaust (as in, its not their stage 2 tune).

Or were you thinking of changing code to another brand?

As for OEM parts, you should get good brands, but importing yourself will be much cheaper. Gav's just bought all that junk for his Polo, he might be nice enough to share part / supplier details.

[AntiFun]

Sorry, guess I'm getting the terminology wrong, that's what I meant, the sensor needs to be mapped out because the exhaust was done after the tune (apr code installed) was done....

Don't think I'll change brands, I don't see a reason too just yet plus the money has already been invested and I still don't understand enough about these cars to know that much.

RE: OEM Parts, yeh... fair enough, but 700 bucks on a part that might die out on me again at any mileage is a bit questionable :/ I guess that's why people delete though . . . .