Retune - the last mod?

[Sharkie]

Have to say, I agree with Guy, I doubt the retune made any difference to the qrt time, Jason. All those other bits and pieces that went in, especially wheels and suspension is what is making the difference ..... cold weather atm is not hurting either .....

I'll be up for a dyno, Guy (again). Need to see what I'm making before the power mods start ..... I'll be going K04 within the year and bigger after that.

At the moment, our Polo is a daily driver so not yet wishing to push the boundaries. My target eventually is 200+wkw ....

[VWindahouse]

Noone, I would suggest going straight to a K04, we obviously have well proven software for it that works a charm. To get a real benefit, I can't see where software change will help you with the K03.

Look at Jasn's 1/4 mile time & look at his terminal speed (99mph in 2008 ), so 4 years of development & a new tune & he has made an extra 2mph (101 mph) - so that shows (as most of us know) a 1/4 mile time with a K03 & 98 ron is going to have a very similar MPH (power) regardless of tune. Make your launch better will net you a better time. 60 foot time came down, so did the 1/4 mile time.

I wouldn't be surprised if a K04 Polo could hit mid 13's with a good launch (if the clutch holds up).

Jasn, If you would like, how about we run your Polo on our new dyno & see what power it makes, and maybe get a couple of other Polo's for comparison?

Can I put the Devil up for the dyno offer Guy? I want see if I top Sharkie

[noone]

Thanks guy.
The APR route is not cheap. A K04 is over a grand before supporting mods, code, labour.

As above, up for over 2k easy.

[Guy_H]

Happy to run a Polo 9N day when we get a bit more set up - I think the one we did a few years was very educational & everyone left with an insight of what effects power output at the wheels.

Noone, seriously I would swap out your intercooler, even the ebay / home fabbed versions have been shown on data logs & dyno's to outperform the Forge version.

[Guy_H]

P.S. If you supply your own K04 & regulator, the software upgrade is $750 - make sure you get genuine KKK K04 & Bosch FPR + genuine bolts / fitting kits etc. The K04 will satisfy most of your power needs in that chassis

[seangti]

Jasn, If you would like, how about we run your Polo on our new dyno & see what power it makes, and maybe get a couple of other Polo's for comparison?

I'd be happy to run mine with Superchips tune for comparison. My mods would replicate a typical stage 1 approach.

Though this thread wasn't about chip wars. I think the power delivery varies between them and that's the likely impact on perceived improvement, rather than outright power variances. Feel doesn't make it any less tangible though.

[VWindahouse]

Mate I think you at at that stage with the Polo where you either go to the next level or not at all. The problem is if you do decide to go for it be prepared to part with a large sum of Yen if you go down the turbo route. If you just go the reflash you will save a heap and gain some more zing but not holy faaarrrrkk sort of zing.

Not only have I witnessed APR'd Ko4 polos on the dyno but I have had the pleasure of driving one also. There is no doubt they are strong! I even have a dyno chart with two of them which overlap with mine from the same day, same operator and same temps which has been posted. And there was a bee's d*ck in it but I lost out buy a few HP.

I then popped the correct rated spring in my DV and picked up 3 psi and 13 atwhp same dyno same operator. And so did one of the Ko4 polo's I mentioned only he changed his front mount and also picked up 3 psi and I have that dyno chart also as he emailed it to advising me to ditch the Forge. All in all with my Ko3 I had more than both in the end. But not by much.

I honestly think the tune had a heap to do with it along with something no one else had done at that stage which was a HPC coated hi-flow exhaust manifold which allows the tiny Ko3 to boost and flow better. Recent logs Gavin has done show this too as it's making more boost than whats being requested. So I'm not going to add to a chip war scenario but to compare apples with apples at that time I had a 14lb light weight flywheel and a custom 2.5" DP with sport cat plus the exhaust manifold, forge DV, forge FMIC and power gasket.

So unless you want to go to at least that level with the same mods to compare to the Ko4's I've mentioned I can't guarantee the same results. The charts I have with the other polo's which were APR'd Ko4, with APR DV, APR FMIC, APR full TB exhaust and APR clutch (Sorry don't know if that includes a light weight fly) and with stock exhaust manifold. (The other APR Ko4 car was not as well set up that's the one I drove with just the Forge FMIC at the time).

Either way you go a lot more coin but with just the reflash you will maximize your set up and Gavin is very well priced.

Best of luck with the decision.

[noone]

Really good input gents.

I'm surprised with the comments that tunes don't make much difference, I know of a few examples of people who have gone with a different tune and are happy with the improvements.

Guy, the APR upgrade cost (if I provide the gear and do the install) is comparative to what CC charge for the retune, again a cost prohibitive model. A k04 kit from ECS is around $1200 landed, again in for over $2k.

I understand that the Forge cooler may not be the greatest, I paid under a grand for it and was able to fit myself, very different to APR again.

I take a bang-for-buck approach, it's been fun and there have been some mistakes along the way.

[clicht]

Hi Guys,
Whist we on this topic, if one were to upgrade their turbo, how would the comparison between frakenturbo vs. apr k04 go ????
Heard good reports on both, interested in hearing your views.
Thanks

[blackbetty]

i've just skim-read the thread, but how about new camshafts or regrinds of the factory ones? the work to take them out and put them back is easy enough for a overhead cam engine.
and even a head porting job might help (but this would be pretty expensive and probably require the KO4 upgrade to take full advantage of it)

[VWindahouse]

Hi Guys,
Whist we on this topic, if one were to upgrade their turbo, how would the comparison between frakenturbo vs. apr k04 go ????
Heard good reports on both, interested in hearing your views.
Thanks

Hey mate, give this a read VWVortex.com - Official K04-02x Information Thread

i've just skim-read the thread, but how about new camshafts or regrinds of the factory ones? the work to take them out and put them back is easy enough for a overhead cam engine.
and even a head porting job might help (but this would be pretty expensive and probably require the KO4 upgrade to take full advantage of it)

This has been covered in great detail VW Vortex in the 1.8t tech section. The head on the 1.8t flows very well from stock so there are no benefits to cams and port job below 500hp they say. Even then you rob low and mid range power for peak power figures seen here
Integrated Engineering 1.8T 20V Street Camshaft Set

The only thing I will be doing to my head (small port) is port matching it to my custom made big port intake manifold.

Cheers.

[s4mmie]

VWindahouse, just having a quick read of your previous post...

I can't remember your supporting mods at the time off the top of my head, but would you say that fitting a high-flow HPC-coated ex manifold would give a comparable power increase to a K04 conversion?
It would be interesting to put the costs of your modded K03 route (at the time of your dyno results) v. the K04 conversion to see the price/kw comparison. I remember reading your thread thinking it sounded like a great mod for how well it's been reported to drive.

[Sharkie]

I think you guys underestimate the bang for your buck of the K04.

To me dyno figures quoted individually have no meaning. 3 or 4 cars on the same day on the same dyno is what counts.

I have seen (in the presence of at least 3 other K03 Polo GTIs) 2 x K04 APR Polos on the dyno. 1 with minimal extras except for the K04 making 145kw atw and 1 with exhaust and FMIC making 152kw atw. On this day a Stg 2 K03 Polo with extra goodies made only 137kw atw .....

The 145kw atw K04 Polo probably had spent all of $3000 to make that power. Most of the K03 Polos making close to that have spent a fair bit more than $3000. My Polo makes a solid 140kw atw and I have spent at least $5000 to get that far .....

So while some of the K03 Polos are approaching K04 power, the amount of $$$ spent is more ..... Go K04 and add some extras and 160kw atw is not impossible .... No K03, no matter how tuned (or by who) will even get close.

[Sharkie]

Also, anybody know of these guys or what their products are like?

RP K04-0001 - K04 VW Transverse 1.8T: RPTURBOS.COM - Replacement & Performance Turbochargers

[vwthunder]

Agree this thread is getting interesting.

My Frankenturbo drives totally different and so much smoother than the K03 with the APR tune, There was so much torque before, well it was nothing or everything, which made the car hard to drive as it wanted to take off all the time. It is more linear now and smoothed out the curve.

I will have it on the dyno on the 16/6 so I will be able to tell everyone what kind of power it is making. I am not expecting huge numbers, it is all about how the car feels/drives right? I made 141KW atw last year with the K03 and it feels like i have a extra 25-30KW now, but not holding my breath

Future mods without going to a bigger turbo would probably be the JBS manifold, its looks like a beautiful bit ot kit, lightweight pullies and maybe water meth. Oh i have had thoughts of changing the cooler, but i would do something custom, off the shelf stuff is not fun lol