Stability Control / Traction Control -Stay Off

[JK8]

I still disagree.
ESP on its own is a very good system, idiot proof for lady drivers I think...

ESP on the PGTi is not neccessary I still stand by it, Im not a track driver but if im on the track, ill do my first lap without ESP and then judge from there if I need it or not.

I did do advanced driving on the MK5 and a few Audis last year, I understand how all the systems work and I was pleasantly surprised by these gimmicks, they work very well in the right conditions!!!

I just dont need ESP in 1st or second gear, I feel it working and I dont like it, I prefer being able to handle the power myself, its a standard PGTi and im more confident with it off than on.

I have been driving with it off for the past 12 000km and its never been a problem, I love it when my tyres chirp when I snap to 2nd gear, and when the tyres chirp in a the parking lot.... its more fun without ESP.

Regarding it still being on when I switch it off, yes I know that, on a late night speeding on the highway went into a bend at 180km I could feel the torque steer, and just as I was about to leave the accelerator a bit the ESP light flashed...

Now all I need is to have it switch itself off automatically and then switch on after I reach 90 - 100kmph... that will make me happy!

Another thing with the PGTis is the wheel alignment, with the standard brushes more prone to break compared to the Plastic ones in the Seat, wheel alignment tends to change atleast every 5000km, now with incorrect alignments and ESP thats a big problem imo.

But I haven't started with any mods to the car yet, but Ill see how it goes.

[VW Convert]

I still disagree.
ESP on its own is a very good system, idiot proof for lady drivers I think...

Even the best drivers can benefit from electronic aids, perhaps some of the female members of this forum may feel inclined to comment on your patronising remark.

ESP on the PGTi is not neccessary I still stand by it, Im not a track driver but if im on the track, ill do my first lap without ESP and then judge from there if I need it or not....

Are you suggesting that in one lap on a racetrack you will be able to replicate every potential situation that may arise in any conditions on the public highway?

I did do advanced driving on the MK5 and a few Audis last year, I understand how all the systems work and I was pleasantly surprised by these gimmicks, they work very well in the right conditions!!!...

Trouble is, none of us know at which precise moment the "right conditions" will occur. I'm curious just what these advanced driver courses you did actually consisted of because some of the behaviours you allude to in your post are behaviours that someone with advanced driver training would avoid like the plague.

I just dont need ESP in 1st or second gear, I feel it working and I dont like it, I prefer being able to handle the power myself, its a standard PGTi and im more confident with it off than on. I have been driving with it off for the past 12 000km and its never been a problem, I love it when my tyres chirp when I snap to 2nd gear, and when the tyres chirp in a the parking lot.... its more fun without ESP....

Chirping the tyres in the parking lot is hardly responsible driving technique.

Regarding it still being on when I switch it off, yes I know that, on a late night speeding on the highway went into a bend at 180km I could feel the torque steer, and just as I was about to leave the accelerator a bit the ESP light flashed......

Hmmmm, 180Km at night on a public highway, last time I looked SA had a 120Km highway speed limit, very happy not to be sharing those highways with you.

Now all I need is to have it switch itself off automatically and then switch on after I reach 90 - 100kmph... that will make me happy!

So there are no circumstances under which ESP could possibly be of assistance below this speed?

Another thing with the PGTis is the wheel alignment, with the standard brushes more prone to break compared to the Plastic ones in the Seat, wheel alignment tends to change atleast every 5000km, now with incorrect alignments and ESP thats a big problem imo....

Would be interested to hear you expand on that one, which b(r)ushes, and how are ESP & incorrect alignments a big problem?

Cheers

George

[Preen59]

Very, VERY well said there George.


Anyone who thinks that these devices are not useful are idiots. Its really that simple and i'm going to be quite blunt about that fact.

Sure, you could go for 300,000kms without traction and stability control and never have an accident. This is true. BUT, that doesn't mean you don't need it. It just means you haven't been put in the situation where you did. I personally have never been in a situation where i've been driving my car with traction control, but i have in other cars. The only reason i didn't come unstuck in a bad way is because i knew the limit and only just breached it, and therefore was able to control it (yes i have a lot of driving experience and no i won't go into this further).

I leave the electronics going all the time in my car, regardless of the conditions. The only time i would turn them off is for a motorsport event, and this would only be to give myself more of a challenge, not because it's faster. That's just stupid.

[seangti]

Not sure what happens when you hit the ESP button on the dash - apparently it disables the ABS, EDL and the ASR. (Interested in knowing if anyone has tested the ABS with it off) Apparently this is for driving on snow or forward reversing it out of a bog. Having driven on snow and really slippery mud I can tell you ABS is really stupid in these situations - you need to the wheels to lock.

The EDL still engages with traction control (or whatever we call the button) turned off - I tried in a wet paddock, you hear a clunk as it engages. Hand brake, build revs and drop. It just sat there spinning going no where. TC on - not so pretty with the EDL engaging and disengage and revs jumping and falling.

I can't say whether that turns off ABS, I didn't try when on grass and certainly wasn't going to when on the track. I didn't engage ABS with traction control on, yet it was more than happy standing on it's nose.

Noone - best to try this is controlled environment, none of us want to hear you've wrapped yourself, a friend or family member around a tree when it could have been avoided.

[noone]

Jesus...

I'm amazed how many people are SO against the idea of removing the electronic assists.

This is the 1st car I've owned that had anything more than ABS.

What is it you think will happen?

I just want to get to know my car for what it is, not what it limits itself to be.

if you push a vehicle to the point of loosing control, you then know how hard you can push it. If you never push it that hard, how do you know what it can take?

Most of the Dubs people love on this forum have NONE of these features, should they all go and get them fitted now?

I didn't buy a Polo GTI because of how many airbags it has, I bought it becuase it was going to be 150kw and <1200 kgs.


FUN.

[JK8]

Even the best drivers can benefit from electronic aids, perhaps some of the female members of this forum may feel inclined to comment on your patronising remark.

Lol Ok I apologise to the fellow PGTis lady drivers...

Are you suggesting that in one lap on a racetrack you will be able to replicate every potential situation that may arise in any conditions on the public highway?

No, are you? You might like the idea of having ESP and thats fine, I prefer a car thats a bit more loose. My previous cars were a BMW 325is and then a 1.8i Citi golf(only made in SA)... both brilliant cars and very powerful! None of them of had ESP ... luckily!

Trouble is, none of us know at which precise moment the "right conditions" will occur. I'm curious just what these advanced driver courses you did actually consisted of because some of the behaviours you allude to in your post are behaviours that someone with advanced driver training would avoid like the plague.

Oh well, Ive never claimed to be better than anyone else, the course was fun and interesting and helpful. If I ever have to slalom between 4 cones and do a handbreak turn on the highway it will come in handy.... lol just kidding.


Chirping the tyres in the parking lot is hardly responsible driving technique.

Niether is putting on make up, smoking or talking on your cellphone, we all have our bad habits...

Hmmmm, 180Km at night on a public highway, last time I looked SA had a 120Km highway speed limit, very happy not to be sharing those highways with you.

Ye well if you ever in Johannesburg over the weekend after 2am, stay in the slow lanes, its not just me you should worry about its the Porsche's and BMs and Audis etc...

So there are no circumstances under which ESP could possibly be of assistance below this speed?

Slippery road perhaps? Oil or vaseline... roads are dangerous theses days...

Would be interested to hear you expand on that one, which b(r)ushes, and how are ESP & incorrect alignments a big problem?

With broken or worn out bushes youll get more torque steer, ESP will have to do more work...

Cheers

George

But I do know where you coming George, theres always more risk involved when you trade fun for safety. It is more fun driving without ESP and yes it can be more dangerous in the wrong conditions. Im sure VW knew that this car is a little lighter than the MK4 thats why they put ESP, its good to know thats it there...

[Preen59]

Jesus...

I'm amazed how many people are SO against the idea of removing the electronic assists.

This is the 1st car I've owned that had anything more than ABS.

What is it you think will happen?

I just want to get to know my car for what it is, not what it limits itself to be.

if you push a vehicle to the point of loosing control, you then know how hard you can push it. If you never push it that hard, how do you know what it can take?

Most of the Dubs people love on this forum have NONE of these features, should they all go and get them fitted now?

I didn't buy a Polo GTI because of how many airbags it has, I bought it becuase it was going to be 150kw and <1200 kgs.


FUN.

Righto then hero..

You go ahead and do what ever you want. Just post it on here when you're going to so we can be elsewhere. Go and get some proper driver training before you worry about pushing the limit, anyway. And i mean hands on, not from a book.

[noone]

I'm just interested to see what the car can be without all that.

Ever played with the settings on your TV, or did you trust Sony to send it to you just right?

[Joe Chu]

Calm needed

Guy's it's getting a little heated here, whether you like it or not ESP or similar systems by other names will be fitted to all cars in the near future, it's already available now on many makes as standard equipment. I don't claim to be a race car driver but I have been in the industry for lets just say a very long time, have done many driving couses and track days getting tuition from a number of profesional race drivers. I don't recomend turning it off for road use due to the fact that you will never know when you need it? It could just save your life when that dog runs out across the road? who knows? Grow up chirping tyres in a car park? Do your nuts grow? Leave it for the track thats what the drags and track days are for!! Also I know plenty of rivers of the opposite sex that would seriously make us all look like fools!! Had to ad my two bobs worth!! Hope I haven't offended anyone??

[Preen59]

I'm just interested to see what the car can be without all that.

Ever played with the settings on your TV, or did you trust Sony to send it to you just right?

Yeah, but your TV contrast and colour settings won't be potentially life threatening for you and/or someone else.

Sorry dude, but you won't understand until something goes wrong, and by then it might be too late.

[Preen59]

Guy's it's getting a little heated here, whether you like it or not ESP or similar systems by other names will be fitted to all cars in the near future, it's already available now on many makes as standard equipment. I don't claim to be a race car driver but I have been in the industry for lets just say a very long time, have done many driving couses and track days getting tuition from a number of profesional race drivers. I don't recomend turning it off for road use due to the fact that you will never know when you need it? It could just save your life when that dog runs out across the road? who knows? Grow up chirping tyres in a car park? Do your nuts grow? Leave it for the track thats what the drags and track days are for!! Also I know plenty of rivers of the opposite sex that would seriously make us all look like fools!! Had to ad my two bobs worth!! Hope I haven't offended anyone??

Well said dude. Thanks.

[Blitzen]

Its turning into the MK5 forum over here...All we need is Maverick to pop his head up with a whole bunch of quotes from Wikipedia!!

My balls do grow when I chirp in the car park...I do have moments when I turn my ESP off, and I have had moments on 3 separate occasions where the traction control has hindered rather than helped in situations, all had been in roundabouts, and one had resulted in a very near accident when a driver attempted to drive in front of me coming from the left...Had the wheels been allowed to spin(wheel slip was detected too early in my opinion) I feel I would have had more room to play with, instead, the power was cut too early, and I was left with my food flat on the accelerator, and slowing down.
This is just something that has happened to me, and is my opinion. Take it how you want.

[gtimonkey]

I find it funny everyone gets so excited about leaving the little ESP button on.

A point that some seem to miss is that there will be a portion of drivers who are not particularly talented who will use ESP to go faster. ESP in this case is just allowing bad drivers to get around and do more bad driving, faster. Not sure how that has improved road safety for everyone. The net impact of a technology will also depend it changes behavior.

No doubt that the car industry is working on a stupid driver detector (SDD) which will allow the car to say no to reckless input of accelerator, brakes steering. At that point I will go and trade my polo Gti in and get a Skoda diesel wagon. The whole point of the polo Gti is that it is a bit stupid.

Driving in Jberg, running with the ESP off is the least of JK8's safety concerns - so some perspective.

[pixl]

I think a lot of you are confusing "fun" with "stupidity"

I have a hell of a lot of fun in my GTI, with ESP on. In fact, as I said earlier, it has already saved me once from ploughing through a barrier. At the end of the day, ESP is designed for the masses. More people want a safer car, than a faster one.

The argument that ESP is just going to enable bad drivers to drive even worse is nonsense. Nothing is going to stop them from driving like a lunatic. They're going to be bad drivers no matter what, but if ESP controls the car for them when they have none, then they're less likely to kill someone.

Now, you might be the most hardcore driver on the planet, able to control any car in any situation, but that still does not give you the right to drive like a ****head on public roads.

As Preeny said, you want to kill yourself, let us know when you're not on the road.

[binnyvo]

I think a lot of you are confusing "fun" with "stupidity"

I have a hell of a lot of fun in my GTI, with ESP on. In fact, as I said earlier, it has already saved me once from ploughing through a barrier. At the end of the day, ESP is designed for the masses. More people want a safer car, than a faster one.

The argument that ESP is just going to enable bad drivers to drive even worse is nonsense. Nothing is going to stop them from driving like a lunatic. They're going to be bad drivers no matter what, but if ESP controls the car for them when they have none, then they're less likely to kill someone.

Now, you might be the most hardcore driver on the planet, able to control any car in any situation, but that still does not give you the right to drive like a ****head on public roads.

As Preeny said, you want to kill yourself, let us know when you're not on the road.

Well said.