Stability Control / Traction Control -Stay Off

[seangti]

interesting, wasn't expecting to have so many people against something that would limit your speed...

Limit speed??? you're on the street dude.

[JK8]

Ahhh someone else feels the same as me!!
I have been driving without ESP for the past 10 months now, no problems at all!
I asked VWclub in SA if they knew but had the same replies as the ones here...

The MK4 had no ESP and it was fine so why the PGTi? I like in the rain and other times, but Id rather have the option to switch it on when I like and have if off all the time!

[Y2008]

I don't see that the ESP interferes with power unless you are REALLY losing tractions (oily surface, water on smooth road, gravel) So it actually does have some give for aceptable amounts of wheel spin. What really makes the difference with safety in my opinion is when it loses traction into a corner or around a curve. To me it doesn't stop you from doing anything but once somethign goes wrong it takes control which i think is great.

[pogo_55]

Does anyone know exactly how the ESP limits power.

I suspect it applies the brakes to the spinning wheel or wheels. May do other stuff too.

[VW Convert]

Apart from cutting engine power when traction is lost, ESP can sense which wheel or wheels may or may not need to have braking applied at any given time and apply braking to those wheels (at individually different pressures) within milliseconds of an event occuring. Which of us can hold our hand up and say "I can do that and do it better than ESP"?

The reality is that none of us can do that and that situations arise in the blink of an eye that ESP can react to and counterract much better than any driver. Safety devices such as ESP are designed to save lives, switching off ESP is a similar mentality to refusing to wear a seat belt.



Cheers

George

[JK8]

Apart from cutting engine power when traction is lost, ESP can sense which wheel or wheels may or may not need to have braking applied at any given time and apply braking to those wheels (at individually different pressures) within milliseconds of an event occuring. Which of us can hold our hand up and say "I can do that and do it better than ESP"?

The reality is that none of us can do that and that situations arise in the blink of an eye that ESP can react to and counterract much better than any driver. Safety devices such as ESP are designed to save lives, switching off ESP is a similar mentality to refusing to wear a seat belt.



Cheers

George

Yawn. ESP gets in the way when you pull of to fast, let the wheels spin, cars without ESP dont crash all the time, MK4s dont have ESP because they dont need it, the PGTi doesnt need it, it comes in handy but its not needed. If the wheels spin a dummy can control it with the steering, ESP in the S3 and 135 yes thats needed but only only powerful cars...
Its just a gimmick on the PGti!

[Buller_Scott]

Didn't sleep to well, to excited.

yeah. i couldnt sleep the day i got remapped (i work nights, sleep during day). it was seriously like a kid at christmas time.

[pixl]

Its just a gimmick on the PGti!

I had a severe case of lift off oversteer a few weeks ago. By all accounts, due to speed, camber/angle of the road and the fact that all four tyres had lost traction, I should have ended up going through the barrier. I noticed out of the corner of my eye a flashing yellow light coming from the instrument cluster, which I can only assume was the ESP light. Within a split second, the front wheels bit into the asphalt and the rears quickly followed. Next thing I know, I'm cruising along the road and the car acts as though nothing happened.

Yeah, I guess it's easy to confuse a safety feature as a gimmick.

[gregozedobe]

Yeah, I guess it's easy to confuse a safety feature as a gimmick.

X 2

It is when you are not expecting to need it that it is most likely to save your bacon (but only if it is switched on). I wonder if the police accident investigators and insurance companies can tell if ESP was switched off at the time of an accident ? It could make the aftermath very traumatic, especially if someone was killed or seriously injured (and that is precisely when they do investigate much more closely then usual)

[/ Grandpa contribution]

[Joe Chu]

Esp

Yawn. ESP gets in the way when you pull of to fast, let the wheels spin, cars without ESP dont crash all the time, MK4s dont have ESP because they dont need it, the PGTi doesnt need it, it comes in handy but its not needed. If the wheels spin a dummy can control it with the steering, ESP in the S3 and 135 yes thats needed but only only powerful cars...
Its just a gimmick on the PGti!

I think your a little confused?? You want to switch off TRACTION CONTROL!! also known as ASR anti slipregulation, which is part of the entire ESP program. Can't switch it off, maybe in the near future someone will write a program that can reconfigure the ESP so you can switch of ASR?? I think it should be fitted to all cars low and high power.

[BTJ]

I just don't see how the traction control is going to cause that much of a dilemma that you need it off. Its not like it is limiting the car to 70kw.

The Polo GTI is a quick little car, but hardly quick enough to be chirping through every gear and leaving piles of rubber, plumes of smoke, and Supercharged V8s in your rear view mirror.

It keeps being said that people want to learn to drive to conditions and learn how the car responds. Here is an idea. Why don't you learn what points the traction control comes on, how it affects the car, what situations/speeds/corners it happens at and then drive to that information.

The car was built to utilise traction control. For my mind you should be learning to drive it utilising the most of its technology, working together. VW rarely bolt things on that are gimicky. if they think the PGTI needs traction control, it probably does. I'm sure there is a bit of an idiot factor built in to the car, but I'm also sure that the car was engineered with this piece of technology as a part of it for a reason.

That said, i commend you for wanting to know what your car is doing and how it responds. good to see other people who care about what is going on aroudn them. the TC on or off thing is just a personal difference.

[FL00DY]

Ahhh someone else feels the same as me!!
I have been driving without ESP for the past 10 months now, no problems at all!
I asked VWclub in SA if they knew but had the same replies as the ones here...

The MK4 had no ESP and it was fine so why the PGTi? I like in the rain and other times, but Id rather have the option to switch it on when I like and have if off all the time!

Yawn. ESP gets in the way when you pull of to fast, let the wheels spin, cars without ESP dont crash all the time, MK4s dont have ESP because they dont need it, the PGTi doesnt need it, it comes in handy but its not needed. If the wheels spin a dummy can control it with the steering, ESP in the S3 and 135 yes thats needed but only only powerful cars...
Its just a gimmick on the PGti!

Trust me when I say that after 109,000km, a dozen track days and a few skid pan days, 4 sets of tyres ... the ESP is NOT a gimmick. Have you gone out on a skid pan and with the ESP on and off to see the difference? Do yourself a favour, go away, try it out and first come back and tell us how much FUN you had and then let us know how 100% wrong you were in your above comments.

The MKIV's don't need it cause they were rubbish cars and slow as hell compared to our Polo GTI's. Seriously they are chalk and cheese when it comes to driving hard, sure they mod well and you can get them going as fast as a Polo GTI, but not in the same league as a cheap performance car.

I turn mine off when I want to gun in it from a set of lights, I go through two sets near home on an 80km speed limit and it's a great place to turn it off and launch hard. It WILL save your life one day and if you turn it off then you wont be around to tell the story, however it is also more fun with it off in the dry.

I think your a little confused?? You want to switch off TRACTION CONTROL!! also known as ASR anti slipregulation, which is part of the entire ESP program. Can't switch it off, maybe in the near future someone will write a program that can reconfigure the ESP so you can switch of ASR?? I think it should be fitted to all cars low and high power.

Joe is right, turning ESP off with the button doesn't turn it off 100% ... can't remember if it was one of the Luff boys @ Oran Park, but I remember someone proving this on the track.

[noone]

Glad to hear so many opinions on this.

Personally I've only ever had nothing or ABS before and I want to see what the vehicle is like without it.

personally I think the traction under acceleration and medium steering leaves something to be desired, tha's why I wanted to see if I could learn how much throttle to use, rather than rely on the computer to tell me what I can and cant do.

Compared to many of you, I don't drive hard. But with the mind of an Engineer, I'm interested to see how, why, etc.

Again, with the chip, H&R springs and Engine mount, the wheels still talk when the turbo torque kicks in in 1st when taking off. Interested to see what happens.

Guess I agree, if I want to play, I should consciously have to choose to turn it off. Having it off unless I turn it on isn't much help when the s@*t goes down.

Keep em coming...

[gtimonkey]

Esp

Hi noone - people feel strongly about safety features (I got similar reactions when posting about this issue a few weeks back) which confuses the issue with the Polo Gti. It is worth talking about (I am also an engineer and do not trust things that I do not understand). I have summarised the systems below from the VW polo spec - they are confusing, since it describes the ASR as switchable but when you read about ESP it seems to be everything including the ABS.

In the Polo Gti the acronym ESP covers a surprising comprehensive array of features that are bundled together, according to the Polo Gti specification:

Antilock Braking System (ABS) - prevents wheels locking

Anti Slip Regulation (ASR) - 'switchable' traction control system, reduces engine torque

Brake Assist - increases brake pressure during emergency stops to activate ABS

Electronic Brake-pressure Distribution (EBD) - electronic regulation of the brake pressure distribution

Electronic Differential Lock (EDL) - operates in combination with the ABS. Using ABS wheel sensors, EDL monitors the speed of each wheel and when difference is detected applies ABS to the spinning wheel. Operates up to 40km/hr - I imagine this is what is helping on the drag strip

Electronic Stabilisation Program (ESP)
ABS, EDL and ASR traction control systems are integrated into the ESP. ...'where the vehicle starts to skid, ESP will apply brakes to the individual wheels and automatically adjust the engine's power out to correct the problem'

Not sure what happens when you hit the ESP button on the dash - apparently it disables the ABS, EDL and the ASR. (Interested in knowing if anyone has tested the ABS with it off) Apparently this is for driving on snow or forward reversing it out of a bog. Having driven on snow and really slippery mud I can tell you ABS is really stupid in these situations - you need to the wheels to lock.

My goal in modifying these systems would be to keep some of the good safety stuff (ABS and ESP) whilst having the option to ditching the traction control element of it or at least the engine power cutting part of the traction control. I imagine that the EDL helps with hard launches, which explains why some guys are getting better times with the ESP on (could be neat to mess about with the speed it might be useful at speeds greater than 40 km/hr). It is also worth knowing that this is using your brakes - on the track could be using up a hard stop or creating a situation where you get a really hot brake on one side.

If you still want to be have the ESP button off all they time I am sure that a good auto electrician could sort it out with a relay.

[golfyvic]

Nothing granpa'ish about that, especially for day to day driving....

I can see their point if they're taking it on a track day!!