Meet my Polo!

[Plautos]

Hello right side drivers!
Last weekend I once again went race on a track Day... to try all my new mods… to have fun…or not.
Well, I finished assembling the car on Friday, leaving me no time to test it properly. After some runs on the highway, I went to the track.
In my first lap I notice the car faster, in the second lap I did 1:40,7 and it was a square lap, all wrong… you can see on the video… my opening laps were after the red S3. In the third lap the engine start to choke… the turbo was surging… you can hear the turbo noise in the video… pit in… pop the hood… scanned the ECU… nothing wrong… back to the track…
Now after the silver S3… that is a very good car by the way… after a couple of laps the same problem again…. But now I notice the problem! The AFR was getting lean…. My new cooler allowed more boost and I thought the injectors were able to feed the engine. But they weren’t… when I test it on the highway the engine didn’t warmed as on the track… giving me a wrong impression. Anyway… my track day was resumed in 7 laps… I was mad… because I knew a 4bar FPR would fixed the problem… and I had it at home!!!
Later on that day, at home, in the garage… in less of 5 minutes I changed the FPR and started the engine. Perfect it is working… but it wasn’t… I went to the highway and guess what! The fuel pressure didn’t hold 5,5bar! The fuel pressure went to 5,5bar but when the injectors opened to feed the engine the pressure dropped to 4bar! The fuel pump, stock fuel pump by the way, didn’t have enough flow! I thought… the pump is busted… but the car has only 30000km… how it can be bad. In the other day… after I cleared my thoughts… I closed the return line and saw only 6bar… the pump was not being able to hold pressure.
New fuel pump… just to be sure… I closed the return line and I saw almost 7bar… this one is better. I went to the highway and again the pressure was dropping… but a little… I need a better fuel pump.
Follow the video…

YouTube - Polo GTI Racing Day 24/10/10

[Plautos]

A warning to the Enkei users… I hit a depression… it was a bad road fix… anyway, it wasn’t a big hit… but I bent the wheel, on the center bore! I had to machine it to bring it to the center. They are not too tough as I thought they should be.

[Guy_H]

Plautos,

there is a big in tank pump available from your APR dealer - From memory we had one in our K04 polo, it's used on the APR stage 3 kit. That might help you out. You need to get a picture of your stock one to make sure you get the matching one.

If it's any help, our Polo's fuel pump only lasted 12,000km's of track use.

[Plautos]

[vwthunder]

Where did you get that gearset from

Can I ask how much it was ?

[Plautos]

I found it on Vwvortex... Bought it used from a guy from Puerto Rico. Cost me USD2660usd landed. A new kit is near USD3700 plus shipping in the USA. But it is hard to find.... to do buisness with the brits is hard... in the end, to me was a good deal.

It is an old Quaife 6 speed syncro gearkit for 02a gearboxes... The only difference between the 02a to 02r and 02j are the first gear syncros and gloves.

I hope in the next week it will be finished... and I hope the gearbox with the new cover fits in the car!!!

[Stuwey]

DO WANT!!!!

So you're telling me the Quaife QKE2V set for the 02J/02A will fit into the Polo JDB casing?????


Hrmmmmm

[Plautos]

Well, it is done.

But I can tell it is not a direct fit. I had to buy a 02a gearbox so salvage some parts, including a half of the housing…
Anyway, it is assembled and the most important… it is working…
On the pictures you can see the box very close to the frame… I had to lower it 10mm to fit under and to clear the power-steering oil lines.

[Plautos]

Hello folks...

I was with a big problem... the engine choked between 3000 and 4000rpm with 0,7bar... the afr fell and came back to normal... weird...

looking on the web I found this thread... then I went look for a 75mm TB... I found one from A6 4.2... but it was shoot... then I bought one from A6 2.7 twin-turbo... it has 70mm...

VWVortex.com - TECH : TEST 1 OF 3 | Throttle Body Sizing

With the new TB in place the ECU start to work with it... and I think the problem is solved...

Anyway I have a conclusion... the big intake manifold deliver more air then stock manifold... so the TB had a wrong opening position to the ECU... so the car choked... I will do more pulls.. but I think the problem is eradicated.

[xtturbo]

I will try to get some time to post up the testing data - we did this to show to at least 5 of our customers that lost a significant amount of boost & power when swapping the stock intercooler to the Forge unit. We have flow bench testing data, dyno logs & road logs. But that's for another thread! Sorry, never tested the Seat one!

I'd like to see this data.

I have one, and I can testify right now that I did not loose a "significant" amount of boost & power.

I can't speak for Guy, but honestly, the car industry is always slagging each others products. If you accept any vendor's appraisal of a product that they have a directly competing product for you're an idiot, pure and simple.

Heres the facts:

1. Plautos's car is running a GT28RS, thats a much bigger turbo. Thats a lot more air, and an intercooler designed for a K03 is likely not suitable for the following reason:

2. Air cannot be cooled unless it interacts (Via friction) with the intercooler. If there is no friction (eg, the intercooler flows HEAPS), it will not cool the air. The right intercooler is the one that provides the best trade-off in terms of restriction vs cooling ability.

3. An intercooler that doesn't result in a loss of boost is not cooling the air. The boost does not 'magically' disappear... it goes down because the air is now denser (cooler air is more dense). The same amount of air comes out as what goes in. 'Boost Loss' through an intercooler is irrelevant.

4. Its worth noting here that the MAP sensor is POST intercooler on the Polo - so any loss of boost pressure will be taken into account by the ECU; it will work the turbo harder to get the programmed boost. This will result in more overall air. I would have thought a tuner would understand that fact.

I'm not saying the forge unit is the best one - it most likely isn't as its a turnflow. But to say it results in a 'significant loss of performance' is absolutely and utterly misleading.

[Guy_H]

Who can host pictures & PDF's for me?

[Guy_H]

xtturbo,

Please don't take offence, and if you have one, that's your choice. The FACT is that more than 7 people have complained of boost & power drops after installing the FORGE intercooler. We have a couple of hundred Polo customers, so after results at a QLD dyno day in 2009, we (with the help of a customer that experienced boost & power drops) had the intercoolers tested on a dyno, data logged & Flow Bench tested.

In all seriousness, the intercooler manufacturer who owns the flow bench we used for testing honestly thought the FORGE unit was a joke, and stated categorically, that you would be better off with a stock intercooler & heat soak than having such a flow restriction in the system.

We forwarded this information to Plautos as he had a similar problem, so we have seen it on K03, K04 & GT turbo Polo's, so it's not an isolated one off.

I really don't care what you bolt on to your own car, but I challenge you to have a stock intercooler tested side by side with the FORGE unit & ask a professional opinion (an intercooler fabricator), based on the flow results, on what they would rather bolt on a vehicle. That is simply what we did.

If you think this is "competitor slanging", you are incorrect, this simply is a product that we firmly believe (and have the data to back it up) that you are better off not having it on your car.

Can you please supply data that shows otherwise. Certainly I know one owner who asked Forge about their testing data & design criteria, and at last contact, there was no response.

Note, we have never tested any other Polo specific intercoolers, not the Seat diesel one, or custom ones, so I have no data or seen any evidence on how they work.

[xtturbo]

Who can host pictures & PDF's for me?

I will. Send me an email at dazein @ me .com with the files

Cheers,

Jarrad

[Guy_H]

Jarrad, you have 3 emails on the way!

[xtturbo]

Jarrad, you have 3 emails on the way!

Ok,

I've done a brief analysis, and if we accept Guy's flowbench testing of the units (which I am happy to), the situation is as follows:

1. The Forge unit flows 310cfm. Thats about enough to make 170kw (at the flywheel), but no more.

2. Therefore, the Forge unit should not be used on cars that go past chipped K03s spec.

I'll post something more convincing later,

Cheers Guy.