Sams Polo 3.0

[sambb]

Gary:

1. On the previous car with the top adjuster all the way back (I'd lined it up north south) and the subframes and ball joints all the way forward, the wheel was noticeably forward in the guard. It did clear with 215/50/15 so I assume it will with 225/45/16. I'd just thought that decreasing the anti dive/pro lift a bit might help with power down on corner exit, but then I do have a proper LSD now, so perhaps retaining my old max caster setup is the simplest way forward.

2. Yeah the fronts wear 312mm TT rotors (DBA T3's) and TT single pot calipers with titanium backing plates and ferodo DS3000 pads, which is up from the 288mm Polo rotors with original single pot calipers that took much much smaller pads. So front braking is way up. If overbraked on the rear I just didnt want to be carrying around an extra 2kg of unsprung weight if its unecessary.

3. It looks as though an angle of about 22 degrees outward to the wishbone will work well and clear everything. Problem is the bar ends are perpendicular to the wishbone and rose joints bind well before that angle on any sort of spacer washer I can find. The Golf Mk4 gti is capable of it because its bar ends are angled too but not in my situation.

Thinking I might have to re purpose my ball joint style ends off the bar and then at the wishbone have rose joints or ball joint style too that are forward facing so they can articulate to any angle (ball style would do that too and be more weather proof).
On the Polo the bar sits back from the edge of the wishbone a bit more than this Mk4 Golf pic.
I am able to select between a 24mm custom whiteline bar, a 22mm whiteline bar and the stock 20mm bar. So if for whatever reason if I cant get the droplinks angled outward and have to run them straight up and down, then I can run the 24mm bar. Angled outward I can use the 22mm bar and the 20mm will be reserved for if I ever go back to stock droplinks and even then isnt likely.

[sambb]

Gary

So after a careful re-measure it looks as though the droplink would naturally fall half way along the wishbone (1/2 way between both pivots)
You'd said that moving the droplink to that position and changing nothing else would loose me 75% of my anti roll.
Funnily enough if you look at this chart: https://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bu...e%20BL-281.pdf you could say that if I had been happy with the 20mm anti roll then using the 22mm bar (on hard) would get me back to where I was ie regain that 75%. If I wanted a tad more then the 24mm bar on soft would get me 107% which would be a gain over the old system with the 20mm bar of roughly 30%.
I had felt that the car was better with the 22mm bar previously. The 22mm bar is apparently 46% stiffer than the OE 20MM bar, so thats the kind of jump ill need. So under the 'droplink on wishbone' system which will loose me 75% of my anti roll (if the droplinks are half way along the arm), it appears that my 22mm bar would only draw level with the anti roll I'd had. And thats with it on hard and no scope to increase if I wanted.
Looks like i'll be retaining the 24mm bar then. Itll recover the 75% loss and give me a net gain of 32% on soft with scope on the hard hole to go a little heavier if I'd like or to compensate if I ever come back on the springs.
Am I getting that right or did I type to soon after waking up?

[Sydneykid]

I assume you are using this table (that I wrote);

https://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/Update%20BL-281.pdf

My suggestion, agreeing with your thinking, would be to go for the 24 mm bar. The 7 kg/mm springs are at the lower end of the A050 target rates so a bit of extra anti roll shouldn't affect their grip levels adversely. Plus you have taken some bump adjustment progression out of the front shocks so even more reason.


Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

ha ha thats cool. I remember you saying you'd worked there and wondered if you'd compiled that. Well nice table! if a shift worker in a constant delirium like me is capable of reading it. Thanks for verifying my ramblings.

[sambb]

So I thought I'd had a massive win yesterday when the Audi S3 hub/knuckles/uprights I's sourced appeared as though they were going to be a genuine plug and play. Polo tie rods fit, Ball joints I know already fit, the strut tube receiver was the same diameter, the splines were the same etc. So mechanically it was looking good. It would have offered about a 30mm lower ball joint position and corrected for steering arm angles. Interestingly the steering arm was 10mm longer than the Polo which I assume would have worsened the turns lock to lock, so I assume the TT has a much faster rack to account for that.
But.......despite it all being a go mechanically its the difference between the two in the ABS sensing area which is the drama. The S3 hubs have a reluctor system - magnet in the sensor and the chopper disc inducing a sine wave. I think thats called passive. When we put the S3 hub in the lathe and turned it it was easy to measure an AC voltage and Hz. No such possibility with the Polo.
The Polo has a system where what looks like the soft dust shield on the wheel bearing, actually has magnetic strips in it and the sensor needs a voltage applied to it. Apparently its called 'magneto resistive' and is an active sensor that has the benefit of not having steel cling to a magnetic sensor head or air gaps in the chopper disc getting clogged up. ie its more reliable and the sensors are physically smaller.
So my ABS module is expecting to see highs and lows between 1.9 -0.6v and the S3 system does not produce that.
I then thought no worries i'll just press the Polo bearing into the S3 hub and then the battle would be accurately mounting the Polo sensor in some sort of custom way. But the S3 bearing housing is 70mm and the Polo's is 68mm so the Polo system cant be transferred across either. The only way I can see that being possible is if the S3 hub was taken out from say 70mm to 74mm and a solid ring is then interference fit in there to give the required ID of 68mm allowing the Polo bearing to be pressed in. No idea if thats do-able/safe/dependable.
But it seems that a bloody ABS sensing mis-match makes S3 hub swapping to our car a no -go.
I guess if it was a track only car I could just pull the ABS fuse but I've heard that ABS modules when they dont have power on them can then rear bias the brakes. You then I suppose could bring your left and right rear brake lines out of the module tee'd into a common line that you could bias manually. But thats a bridge way to far for what I use the car for.

[Sydneykid]

You idea of a high tensile steel shrink sleeve in the S3 housing to fit the 68 mm Polo hub bearing is doable, I can give you the contact details of someones (more than 1) who can do it. Basically you just take it to them and say "please make this fit here" and they are capable of the engineering and the machining to get it done.

OR

Try a trip to the local CBC Bearing shop and see if they have a bearing that is right outer and inner combination?


Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

yeah Gary if you could send me the details of someone who could do that kind of work, that would be great thanks

[sambb]

they dont make manifolds like they used to! 3D printed inconel exhaust mani for new supra/beamer

Turbo Manifold 3D Printed from Inconel Powder - YouTube

crazy stuff

[Sydneykid]

yeah Gary if you could send me the details of someone who could do that kind of work, that would be great thanks

SMS's sent.

Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

Latest installment:

Because a large amount of time had elapsed since I last did a K03 framed turbo, I'd completely forgotten what a ba5tard of a job it is to do anything back there. I had very seriously toyed with the idea of turning the cars K04-001 into a stock parts hybrid by adding the marginally bigger K03s's compressor wheel, but time off the road would have been the biggest drama and I'm not sure how much better that'd have been vs the effort, so I decided to keep the K04-001 in there. Its shaft has zero lat/long play and seems pretty tight too. So what I did think was going to be worth it on an effort/reward basis was swapping in the ported exhaust mani and changing over to my Turbosmart wastegate actuator. Turns out that despite there being access to the wastegate actuator bracket when the mani is removed, two of the bolts did not want to budge. Applying heat, tapping them and as much torque as I dared and they werent coming loose so for fear of sheering a bolt and really complicating my life I just left the stock K04-001 actuator on there. Mani was a pain in the butt. In the interest of maybe having the only K0# turbo whose bolts dont unwind themselves Eddy had actually tack welded steel plates between the bolt heads to prevent them loosening. After a dremelling saga I finally got onto the bolts and two of them had lost their torque. Not saying that Eddy hadnt torqued them, for sure he would have, but it seems that the bolts loosening is not an unwinding issue. And he'd also added an additional brace from the turbo to the block to combat the way the exhaust system appears to sheer at the turbo bolts. All those braces were tight, so it couldnt have been sheering either. The only other things I can think of is that it gets so insanely hot in the throat of that little turbo that the metallurgy of any bolt just breaks down and the heat cycles elongate the bolt over time? It could also be that the gaskets are rubbish and compress a certain amount when torqued up, but then thin out over time thus releasing the clamping force on the bolts? When I got the gasket out it was that classic oval shape they turn into right before they burn through. Maybe there is something in what I'd read a while back that says the only way to solve it is to linish the turbo and mani faces perfectly and clamp them with a high temp silicon metal to metal. On my old cars K03s I'd chased its threads through further, eliminated the OE stretch bolt and gone to longer 12.9's so it could cope with a higher torque setting, and used oversized nordlock washers. Despite all that when removing that turbo off the crashed car I noticed that the bolt closest to the head wasnt as tight as the other two. maybe on the way to a fail? I inspected how the nordlocks had operated and I dont think they'll work the way they are meant to if the nordlock is the only washer present. The cast mani and high tensile cap head is too hard for the nordlock to bite into. This time I did a few tests with parts off the car and I think if you use the OE washer against the mani and then the nordlock over that, the nordlock really locks into the base washer (because it is softer) and it was comparitively harder to get them to crack and release when you are untightening when setup that way. Either way I figured its worth trying on this turbo so we'll see.
results: the ported mani (and probably going to my old cars 3 inch dump ->2.75-> 2.5 over the beam) saw the boost needle swing very quickly over 25psi!! before I managed to get my foot off it. It was boosting more aggressively and peaking so much higher that it was throwing over boost codes so I had to go back to my old tricks of using a restrictor pill inside an N75 line to temper the boost. Obviously normally it'd be retuning but the ECU on this car has a generic APR tune in it that can't be fettled so doing that very effective ghetto method has it running right on 20psi now. So yes the ported mani made a huge difference and was worth the swearing.

second mission was this:




Basically removal of the OE airbox and battery, again..... lots of de ja vu on this car, fitting up a vibratechnics solidish gearbox/engine mount, refitting my battery tray over that with a Deka ETX20L 310 cca battery, and redoing the wiring to suit. Once thats done the K&N cone in a box could go in. One thing I did differently was how the sub circuit panel was supplied. Last time I mounted that panel on its bracket but then its cable wouldnt reach the common positive tower that I'd mounted. I had to clamp and solder a longer cable from it to reach the post. This time I realised that if I just lowered the panel on its bracket that the OE cable would reach.


So if anyone wants to go ahead with an OE battery delete, make sure you mount the positive terminal post no lower than where mine is (its about the only place where it'll fit anyway). Mines just mounted to rivnuts that go through there into the guard but still dont penetrate further than the guard liner so definitely arent fouling tyres or anything. Then if you mount the black terminal panel no higher than in the pic, you'll be able to get the panel cable onto the post no worries. All that plastic rubbish on top of the OE battery is actually seperate to the terminal panel you see above. It slides laterally and comes right off it. To do the above you just need to cut off the part of all that plastic crap that this terminal panel slides/clips onto, mount that part onto a bracket, and then slide the terminal panel back on. no re-wiring, easy peasey. Then on the cars thick gauge cables (starter and alternator) you just need to cut off their OE battery lugs, crimp on some generic ones and connect them to the same positive post with the terminal panel, and run a fat lead there from where ever you've put your battery (boot, cabin, or where I have mine). The space it free's up in the bay and the accessibility it gives is the main positive but it also saves about 10kg, moves the remaining weight back against the firewall and then gives you all sorts of intake options. Oh and also lets you run a strut tower brace because you wont need to remove it to get your OE airbox open when you are due for a filter clean. hint hint
Did I mention that I'm selling a strut brace!!

and after the completion of this job now also a SEAT Sport PD160 intake along with this 'cone in a factory airbox' setup


but I digress. Battery job is done, intake is on and the car makes very audible induction and cho cho sounds now and with all the breathing mods now done, is probably as strong as it will get with the K04-001 on it. I just need to log it to check that the stock injectors arent maxed (could be despite the APR tunes 4 bar regulator).

At the end of all that and two very late nights I stood back and did this and then finally caught up on some sleep.

[sambb]

ah seems breathing mods a bit too good for the APR generic tune thats in the car. It runs stock injectors but with a 4 bar rather than 3 bar fuel pressure regulator. Right at around 3000-4000rpm which is the boost peak its pulling up to 6.5 degrees of timing and then as is usual for these things is conservative in taking it out again so its really robbing power. It was 17 degrees ambient and iAT stayed rock solid at 20 degrees throughout (same cant be said of the SEAT Sport IC coupled with the K03s). The tune is actually asking for 1.55 bar (22.5psi) and I'm only giving it 1.27 bar (18.4psi) yet the timing pull is happening. It looks like its going lean in that spot, where you least want it to. ie reaching 0.88-0.89 lambda, so I think its a fuelling issue. The duty cycle of the injectors in that spot (calculated online by entering rpm and injection ms into a calculator) came back at well under 70% so the injectors themsleves arent maxed at that point. The fuel pump is a virtually new uprated APS 265lph pump that was coping just fine on 550cc injectors at 3 bar (stock are 318cc) so I doubt I'm lacking fuel pressure behind those open times. Confirming this is that at the top end >6000rpm at 82% injector duty cycle its at 0.78 lambda.
So for some reason its going pretty lean at the top of the boost ramp which may be because it is moving much more air due to much less back pressure due to the mani and 3 inch dump/exhaust. But despite less boost? not sure. The overfuelling at the top end might be APR just covering off big EGT's or the fact that stock fuel pumps were probably struggling to keep up at that point and mine is doing just fine?
So it'll rocket up through the gears aok but when you do dyno style 3rd gear pulls from 2-2500rpm it exposes it. The timing pull can really be felt down low and the richness at the top is robbing it too because its no stronger there than the modded K03s was. So if I wanted to continue in the ghetto vane I could probably get some water meth into that lean spot with a boost trigger but I think not. Instead I'll chuck the EV14 550cc injectors back in with the 3 bar, maybe go from 2.5-2.75in MAF and get Dave Howlett to do some nefmoto magic on the tune.

[sambb]

I'm going to be selling my K03s modded housings. The CHRA despite being rebuilt has seen some pretty fast rpm's over time and I wouldnt feel comfortable giving that any sort of guarantee but the housings are perfectly perfect and ideal to be swapped onto someones turbo.
Its exhaust housing was pretty comprehensively ported with the throat to the wastegate opened right out so that it could flow the required gas to stop the shaft overspeeding.
the flow to the wastegate is normally closed right down compared to this. makes a big difference.
The compressor housing has had the muffler removed and a straight pipe welded in its place so that it mimics the older K03 and K04-001 cover with the nice smooth compressor outlet. It makes a nice induction sound now and makes comp surge cho cho's if you run a stiffly sprung diaphragm DV or a piston type if you are into that kind of thing.

[sambb]

This is what I mean with the battery sub circuits panel.

The panel with the terminations/fuses etc slides sideways off the giant black plastic battery shroud. Cut off all the excess leaving just the mounting part seen in pic 1. I mounted that to this bit of nylon because it was the only non conductive bit of anything I had lying around and then that to a bracket shaped to help it clear the washer bottle. Then just take you terminations/fuse/subcircuit panel and click it back on!

[sambb]

and once you're in there hiffing the stock battery and airbox you'll most likely find this drama.

This is why Forge and most other oversizes TIP's and definitely the 'fatty' versions are such a bitch to fit. This heater core hard pipe which is mounted to the block squishes it closed some and wedges it against the gear selector cables. Undo the bolt holding it on, slip a big nut under it to space it out off the block and then grab it and give it a gentle bend outward, and it'll look like this:

your TIP will be easy to get in and out, it will breathe again without being squeezed shut in that spot and you wont be fouling gearbox cables. Lots of TIPs will sit hard against the exhaust mani heat shield which will also start to tear into them. I think part of that drama is caused by this water pipe forcing it forward as well.

[Sydneykid]

So for some reason its going pretty lean at the top of the boost ramp which may be because it is moving much more air due to much less back pressure due to the mani and 3 inch dump/exhaust. But despite less boost? not sure.

Nailed it, removing restrictions increases the airflow, which is what makes power (when combined with fuel). Boost is a measure of resistance to airflow not a measure of the airflow itself. There is also an inlet air temp consideration, maybe the higher boost level increases the inlet air temp exponentially, is their logging of that?


Cheers
Gary