Sams Polo 3.0

[sambb]

I'll have a completed 98 ron tune very soon. Before going down the path of a dedicated E20 tune, I'm pretty sure I can test E20 out using some rudimentary tuning myself. The old Lemmiwinks software lets me globally adjust my main fuel term and have control over low load fuel trims and allows global timing adjustment too.
Assuming I'll have duty cycle head room in the injectors I'm more than prepared to have a fiddle with E20 with two eyes on the logs of course. How it'll respond to timing changes is usually pretty clear but I'm not sure RE fuelling. Is E20 so different that the ideal lambda will need to deviate much from the 98 ron position? If say my best safe 98 ron fuelling is at 0.81 lambda or the like, will I likely need to move a couple of points richer or leaner from there once E20 is in the tank or will it most likely just be a case of nudging up the timing and seeing where that heads? If the results are tangible then for sure I'll get the other ECU tuned specifically for it.

edit: actually the VAG logs put fuelling into lambda, not afr and lambda is lambda not matter what your fuel is so if I go to E20 then I should just adjust for fuelling for whatever lambda the 98 was roughly on I think.

[Sydneykid]

You do a fair few k's so "2 tunes" maybe worthwhile, most of the E20 guys just fill up every time with 5/10 litres of E85 and 15/30 litres of Pump 98. For track days etc they take a 20 litre drum of E85 to the track and then balance up to E20 with Pump 98 from the local servo. Particularly for Wakefield where the nearest E85 is Canberra. You have United/s close to your work so you could pretty much run E20 all the time.

Next time you are over at the workshop ask Justin for some Nulon E85 stabiliser, that stops the ethanol from separating from the petrol if you don't use it for a long time. I also race tape up the can lid to make sure no moisture sneaks in, ethanol is hygroscopic like brake fluid.

Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

I ran at SMSP Gardiner/GP circuit on Monday as part of a Renault day organised by Renotech. Ive never seen so many Renaults (or hatch backs) in one spot. There were 120 Clios, Meganes etc with an Alpine A110 and even one of those V6 rear engined Clios done by Williams F1.
It was my first experience of the proper SMSP layout (that the Supercars do), having only done South Circuit a couple of times. Apart from Bathurst and Wakefield where I have only ever fleetingly gotten into 4th gear it was quite the experience to be hitting 190 on the straight, having to actually make a 4th -5th gear change at full noise, turning in near 170kph at turn 1 etc. I'd be lying if I said I wasnt a little apprehensive going into the day. The chassis is all mine on this car now but the engine, gearbox/clutch condition are a complete unknown so there was that to consider and also my last hillclimb experience on these 225/45/16 medium tyres wasnt great RE the car trying to swap ends on me. It was a different sort of apprehension to hillclimbs. There because you are competing and know you'll be going hard without ever really being dialled into what the car/setup/tyres/track is doing I get run to the toilets type nervous sometimes. This was different because no one cares what you are doing on track and you know you have all the time in the world to get used to things and work up to a good speed, but yeah I knew turn 1 was going to be a sphincter clencher as its several steps above anything I'd done before.
Well as I had suspected after Bathurst, the handling problems I'd had there were due to running wide, hard to heat mediums on a setup I'd previously always used with narrower easy to heat softs. I had no such issues on the circuit and once I got my eye in I could only describe the handling as the best I've ever had. The only handling change I made for the track was to swap in my rose jointed rear droplinks and drop the rear another 5mm on the collars. I started the rear damping on the same softened off settings I'd left it at from Bathurst, as my main consideration was to have the rear safe for turn 1. From there though I found myself going 4 clicks harder throughout the day and was still safe at turn 1 in the last session so I could have gone up another 2 I'd say which would have put me squarely back where I normally would have run at Bathurst or south circuit. Given that, I think that if I wanted to just follow the 'keep it simple' principle in the future, I could more or less start on the same settings everywhere provided I'm using rear softs at hillclimbs.
Using Racechrono Pro using the iphones internal GPS I went for a high windscreen mount to make sure the satellites could see me and had reliable lap by lap timing. I didnt get any missed finishes giving 4 minute laps or anything like that and the only mishap where it missed the whole session was my fault I think. My best lap was a 1:55.76 on the last lap of the last session which I was pretty happy with considering that I couldnt top 190kph down the straight. That lap was also my theoretical best meaning I'd nailed all the sectors in that session too which is a double plus. So for the first time there, where I was still well and truly building up to a solid entry speed into turn 1, still had no idea what I was doing at turn 2 and the engine tune isn't finalised (had some funny boost surge moments here and there), I was pretty stoked with that.
My take aways were:

- the TT brakes despite still lacking much feel and still having too much pedal throw, were fade free and really hauled it down going into turn 2. Prior to this day I was close to going back to the stock smaller solid disc rears that are stock on the Gti (because they are lighter) but I think they may have struggled to be honest. I'd just flushed with Motul RPF600 and the pads are the DS3000's that came with the car. Once they are worn down I'll change for something from the Hawk catalogue (as they actually make something for the these TT brakes) and then I think I'll be satisfied with the brakes for a while.........until Simon guinea pigs a bigger master cylinder!

- the car needs the extra toe out that the old car had. It uses the whiteline toe correction shims that give no more camber than stock and 1mm total toe out. I could feel that the rear wasnt as lively as the last car that had 3mm toe out when negotiating the back of the circuit. 3mm total toe out on the rear might be too much now that I'll probably get back to SMSP much more in future (I'm all ears on that!) but it'll still need a re-shim anyway to get a another half a degree of neg camber into its rear even if I dont add any more toe out. It could have been the wider rears but it was just missing that rear steer that could have had me on the throttle earlier around the south circuit parts of the track.

- even though the tune isnt finished, its at the diminishing returns point. So there's not much more to be had from it and I can honestly say that a K04-001 is virtually identical to the last cars K03s that'd had wastegate porting and ran a fresher wastegate actuator. It may produce the bulk of its torque 500-800rpm shifted higher in the rev range than the tickled K03s but I dont think their peak power would vary at all. The K04-001 falls over just as early as the stock modded turbo did. So coming down the straight I was still changing at 5800rpm which in the context of that straight felt SLOW. Its only advantage is that the K04-001 will be comparable to the modded K03s with say 2psi less boost so probably runs minisculy lower iAT's. But I wouldnt be removing a K03s to put a K04-001 on expecting a justifiable jump in performance. I'd be K03 hybriding (littco L280) or K04-023'ing.

- tyres. I want to find the japanese guy who made A050's happen and hug him tightly. The grip is just insane. I'm still curious to see if a tyre width down on the rear (225->205) is possible without loosing out. At the level I drive at I suspect that I'm over tyre'd at 225 on the back and maybe 205/45/16 will cut it, and may even work in hillclimbs that way too, which would be good given that 16 inch softs are like hens teeth.

All up it was one of the best days on the track I've had. I had my own little wins and the guys that were there with me - Metalhead with his Vette and my Clio mate - had really good days too. We all got the fear of the unknown Turn 1 monkey off our backs and survived with everything intact which made for a top day.

[Sydneykid]

There will be some 205's available shortly, maybe after the next meeting.

The rear wing is it's most useful for SMSP Turn 1, without it we have to compromise on the set up for the rest of the circuit. Even then a bit gentler on the rear toe out than at Wakefield, ~4 mm total instead of ~6. Camber wise the reverse of Wakefield, 0.75 degree more neg on the RHS front and same camber (no stagger) on the rear. You get a bit more roll in Turn 1 due to the higher lat G, so the rear camber helps contain the tail a bit more. Less front toe out as well, only 2 mm.

For a FWD 1.42 it's ~220 kph in 6th, then ~180 kph down to 5th on turn in but accelerating to 190 kph at the apex, if you are accelerating it shouldn't want to swap ends, it's a long run to turn 2 and we almost get to the same top speed. Turn 5 is important as you carry the speed up the hill, a small sacrifice in turn 4 can be of benefit, so it doesn't ruin your entry into 5. Need to be on the power as early as possible out of the hairpin (turn 9) as it's a decent run out of there too. They are currently resurfacing turns 2, 3 & 5 which should help remove some of the bumps, that can be unsettling.

Cheers
Gary

[Sydneykid]

And, I don't like DS3000 (or DS2500 either) they always feel "vague" to me.

Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

I'm a 5 speed box so at turn 1 was basically giving the brakes a little wiff at the 200m board as a settler, then finding a low throttle percent on turn in that I could carry towards the apex. I was always feeding it in from the apex. As the day went on I was staying a tad further and further at full throttle before lifting for the entry.
I 'll go back through your previous posts re Hawk pads as the fronts are down a bit now so i'll do them soon.
I was in heaven through turns 4 and 5. Stringing them together is just bliss when you have the car on the limit and hit all your marks. Turn 6 was a difficult one for me, but late apexing around corporate hill and down to the hairpin was really sweet too. Those were the only parts where I could close pretty positively on Andrew in his Vette if I got it all right, but then it was see you later for any straighter faster stuff.
So glad I did the droplink to wishbone mod. RE what you said about getting off the hairpin well, I was able to turn in in 2nd gear and quite easily hold the wheel with one hand, other hand at the ready to just before the apex and then grab third and get hard on the accelerator for the exit nice and early. Pre-drop link mod I would have been struggling to do that with the forces coming back at me through the steering wheel.
A 1:55 is definitely something to build on because I know that with some setup changes I'll be able to find lots of time at turn 1 and especially turn 2 where I was frankly lost. I'll be doing an 20% E85 tune too which will hopefully allow a bit more timing and get me a few more horsies for down the straight.
You know where to find me once there are retired tyres Gary!!

[sambb]

So the IPRA 2 Litre guys are doing 1:42's. Did I read that right? Farrk. Apexing turn 1 at 190kph. Hmm I'm trying to picture being in that spot in my car doing the speed I was doing on the straight. Scary picture!

[Sydneykid]

So the IPRA 2 Litre guys are doing 1:42's. Did I read that right? Farrk. Apexing turn 1 at 190kph. Hmm I'm trying to picture being in that spot in my car doing the speed I was doing on the straight. Scary picture!

2020 Motorsport Australia NSW Motor Race Championship Rd 3
Sydney Motorsport Park Gardner
2020 MA NSW Improved Production U2L Championship-Qualifying
Qualifying Q2 15 Mins

Scheduled Start 00:02
Page 1 Issue 1
Start Sat Aug 01 08:28
Elapsed Time 15:02

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________
Pos Car Competitor/Team Driver Vehicle Cap CL Laps Fastest...Lap Gap

1 16 JOHNO'S AUTO ELECTRICAL Jason Hendy (NSW) Nissan 200SX 1998 4 3 1:41.3362*
2 96 Mike Hughes Finance Kurt Macready (NSW) Nissan silvia 1998 6 6 1:41.9097 0:00.5735
3 44 Nulon Products Australia Justin Mcclintock (NSW) Honda / Civic 1998 3 3 1:42.8045 0:01.4683
4 4 Sponsor wanted Bob Jowett (NSW) Honda Civic 2000 3 3 1:43.6140 0:02.2778
5 30 SMSF Graham Bohm (NSW) Honda Civic EG 2000 6 5 1:45.8832 0:04.5470
6 54 WILDRIDGE FABRICATIONS Craig Wildridge (NSW) Ford Escort 1998 6 5 1:47.2190 0:05.8828
7 43 Sprintparts Mark Larmour (NSW) Renault Clio Sport 1998 6 4 1:48.1780 0:06.8418
8 5 TRACKSCHOOL / V8HOTLAPS John Boston (NSW) Hyundai Lantra 1998 4 4 1:49.0807 0:07.7445
9 19 Sprintparts Matthew Larmour (NSW) Mitsubishi Mirage Cy 1597 3 3 1:50.3859 0:09.0497
10 55 Nova air & Electrical / Hayman Michael Sherwell (NSW) toyota 86 1999 7 7 1:50.5805 0:09.2443
11 42 Sprintparts Philip Larmour (NSW) Honda Integra Type R 1798 7 7 1:51.7307 0:10.3945
12 37 WILDRIDGE FABRICATIONS Matthew Wildridge (NSW) Ford Escort 1998 7 4 1:52.2268 0:10.8906
13 93 Van Vorst Racing Joshua Van Vorst (NSW) Toyota Corolla Seca 1587 6 4 1:53.4118 0:12.0756
14 90 R Berson Robert Berson (NSW) Ford Escort Mk2 1988 7 6 1:54.3281 0:12.9919
15 127 D Haines David Haines (NSW) Toyota AE101 1587 6 5 1:59.2487 0:17.9125
16 351 L Murray Liam Murray (NSW) Suzuki Swift 1500 5 5 1:59.3125 0:17.9763
41 Industrie Clothing Ryan Jagger (NSW) Holden Barina 1934
29 Brad Piggott Brad Piggott (NSW) Toyota Corolla 1800

Fastest Lap Av.Speed Is 140kph, 130% Of First 1 Is 2:11.7371
R=under lap record by greatest margin, r=under lap record, *=fastest lap time
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________
Issue# 1 - Printed Sat Aug 01 08:57:35 2020 Timing System By NATSOFT (03)63431311 Page not found | Natsoft® Accounting Software & IT Specialists Tasmania & Dorian DATA-1
NSW & ARDC Timing Crew - Chief: David Douglas


Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

I'd be interested to see what that more production based Cooltech Industries Polo Gti that was at Wakefield when you were there does.

[sambb]

Another thing - turbo bolts came loose. Ive now tried:
- standard OEM hex heads at spec torque
- standard at as tight as I could get them torque
- 12.9 tensile cap heads with OE washers
- 12.9's with wide diameter nordlocks
- the car I just bought had OE bolts that were bridged to one another and tack welded - gasket was still 95% burnt through.
-12.9's with standard diameter nordlocks on top of OE washers.

This last iteration is what came undone again and that was with two braces running from the block to support the turbo. I dont think the nordlocks are working properly because they dont seem to be able to grip into the manifold casting which is what is needed to stop the bolt backing out. Other option now might be some drop in studs (from above) with headstud-like finer nuts that you could get a smaller socket onto, and then you could really crank on them. Important to be able to remove the studs though otherwise you'd never be able to get the exhaust mani off without removing the turbo.

[Sydneykid]

Skyline turbo's also come loose, I use studs, nuts and lock wire.



Cheers
Gary

[HaydEn]

I used 10.9 inhex with a spring and flat washer torqued to 65nm.

Hadn’t backed off torque in over 12 months. Granted no track work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sambb]

Yep thinking i'll source some studs. Its crazy that it cant last 25 laps when I'd re tightened them the night before. Or maybe the bolts need to go in the oven before being installed into a cold hot side so that they really clamp down as they cool.

So my front pads are getting low. I had a look at this Hawk pads graph:



Now based on the graph ad what you'd said Gary I'd have gone for Hawk Blacks. Problem is though they only seem to do the HPS 5.0 and the HP+ for the TT brakes that are in my car. Blacks dont seem to come up in any of their listings. I think the HP+ will be the go but before I take the plunge are there any other brands that you could recommend that might have something if you think HP+ isnt the right way to go. Basically something better than the DS3000's that I've had in there?

Also The new car has titanium backing plate/shims that go between the caliper piston and the pads backing plate. I assume that is to stop heat transfer to the fluid, but titanium is soft and I was thinking compressible? Do you reckon there will be any real world benefit to keeping them and perhaps I'd gain more RE our feedback-less pedals by having the piston act directly on the pad?

[Sydneykid]

Titanium has no real world elasticity, so once there is the compression from the piston/arm shapes there shouldn't be any contribution to pedal "sponginess". I have used stainless steel shims in the past as a heat barrier, OE callipers often have them as well. Effect is minimal so I wouldn't worry about using them. They do sometimes help with pad "squeal" so I wouldn't throw them out just in case.

On the Evo (I have checked with Matt) the only negative he found with HPS was dust and the very first stop on a cold morning needed to be carefully executed. On the track he was very happy with them. HPS 5.0 are supposed to be less dusty than the original HPS. My view, HPS would be better for street and hillclimbs, HP+ would be OK for street and much better for track days.

You might want to try contacting Hawk, they may be able to recommend a pad in Black that is the same backer shape, or close enough without mods, or very close so that I can cut it to shape for you with the band saw.


Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

Thanks Gary. Backing plates will stay then. Yeah I’ll see what alternatives I can find in the blacks. The effort seems like it’d be worth it. Going by the graph it just looks to be the ‘does all’ compound - no cold temp issues yet does everything and more at the other end compared to HP+ and even DTC-15.