9n3 timing belt broken

[Switch]

Hi all,
Today when i went to start the car it stuttered and didn't want to start up.
I proceeded to check it with the ob11 device to see what the code was and it said it was the cam sensor ... p0341 short circuit to b ground. why can't these codes say timing belt/chain broken.

since the car wasn't running when i cranked it over whats the potential outcome of bending some valves?

Since i'm not handy with fixing this my self i towed the car to the local mechanics, anyone know a rough estimate of whats it going to cost to fix?

[simon k]

Bugger! It'll probably be cheaper to get a 2nd hand engine from the wreckers than to fix yours

[JTop]

Hi Switch,

Potential outcome: Most definitely.
This is a big R.I.P. moment to any 20V 1.8T engine... Can throw it in the bin if you cranked too long. Best bet is to find one second hand engine OR find a second hand head in good condition..
Always and I mean it, check the timing belt... and if in doubt, get it replaced.. Cheaper than what's going to happen mate.

Best wishes!

[h100vw]

If you cranked it again after it stopped. Don't spend money on investigating. It will have bent valves. Ihad a belt strip it's teeth in my polo. Engines turn up cheap at times. A day's labour for an engine swap. I'd you get another engine. Try and confirm the age of the belt on it. Or do the right thing and change it anyway.

[sambb]

I may have an engine for you soon mate. A runner with 160,000km thats in my car that Ive been running around in for the last 3 years OR a 90,000km motor thats been stripped of its bolt ons and is on an engine stand. It was awaiting a rebuild. Nothing wrong with it, its just that the motor i'd earmarked for the build was the low kay one. Its still got oil in it, has had oil down the plug holes, has had all its ports taped up and has been turned over by hand periodically to keep it clean as a whistle on the inside. But there'd be more labour swapping over your exhaust side and inlet, and ancillaries to it. Alternatively if your bottom end is ok I have a brand new large port head (yours would be a small port), large port inlet manifold to go with it, head replacement/gasket kit, and most of the timing belt renewal gear and injector hats that you'd need.

[sambb]

youd need to be retuned for the large port head though and have the VVT function on start up disabled too.

[Switch]

Cheers for the info everyone.

Its a shame that a simple thing like this could. Cook the engine.

Mechanic is booked out for 2 weeks. I just want to find a way to get this back onto the road again.

Sam, atm i have a custom "stage 2" ecu which has pops n bangs etc..
I do have a spare ecu with stage 2 giac also.
with a large port would it affect that tune much or will i need a full re tune.

Thanks for all your help.

[h100vw]

Could swap in the vvt tensioner. VVT could be switched off in the software but wouldn't be possible in the GIAC ecu. The custom tuned one might be doable.

[sambb]

The large port heads were non VVT. Our small port head is VVT and only used to advance the intake cam by 20 crank degrees (10 cam) on cold start ups. I run a small port head at the moment. The VVT tensioner is still in there, but the ECU has had that written out so it wont operate ie I have the VVT solenoid unplugged and it doesnt throw a code. If you are going to run non-VVT long term though you'd be better to fit the actual non-VVT tensioner.

So you could run the large port non VVT head and just swap in a VVT tensioner out of your dud head and away you go on either of your tunes OR run the large port head with its non-VVT tensioner and have it written out of the tune on your custom file ecu. Like Gav said you wouldnt be able to do that with the retail tune though.
Thats the VVT side of things with respect to the large port head but I'd say there'd maybe also be some optimising needed with the large port head fitted to a small port tune because they'd flow slightly differently at a guess.
The other thing to consider is that the large port head requires a large port inlet mani. I have the AGU one off a Mk4 Golf gti but its throttle body angle is different to the Polos, angled more towards the back of the headlight so you'd need a custom pipe up off the MAP tube up to the throttle body. Your throttle body will bolt onto it but you may need also to re-rout some of your vac lines eg booster, PCV, fpr reference etc but those are small issues.
Last thing is you need to run injector hats on top of your stock small port length injectors to bring them out to large port length injectors.
So you'd be looking at LP head, maybe a fixed tensioner if you wanted to run that way (would include a tune alteration) OR put your VVT tensioner in, inlet mani with its pipe/vac alterations, gasket and injector hats. Also a timing belt kit and water pump and head gasket kit
I have all the head/inlet related stuff, head gasket kits and timing belt stuff too. Its a fair bit of stuff and dollars needed.
simplest would be a small port head which'll be more straight forward, head gasket and timing belt kit.

[Switch]

Hello,
So what would be the cheapest easiest route for me?
I have some money to get this fixed and don't want to sound like a cheapy but what would be the cheapest easiest option for this? I just explained to the mechanic that I'm trying to figure out what route i want to go. He's going to have a once over with the car today to see the damage and give me some more information based on that. I did explain all the concerns that you all have brought up and some possible solutions to those concerns.

Cheers.

[simon k]

We can't answer that question because the car isn't where we can see it, so start with some facts...

The belt broke when you were trying to start the engine, so it wasn't running when it broke.

The pistons will have impacted the valves, so the valves will be damaged, how badly and how many we don't know.

To properly assess the damage the mechanic will need to take the head off. This is when the labour charge will start.

The mechanic may find that the damage is minimal and say that it's cheapest to replace the valves and put the head back on. Or he might find that the damage is catastrophic and say that you need another engine... either way you're paying him to work on the car.

This is where my original suggestion of getting an engine from the wreckers came from. I was suggesting you skip the diagnosis and go to the replacement, which may or may not be required anyway.

You with me?

[h100vw]

I agree with Simon. If you are paying for labour. It makes sense to swap the engine rather than dig into the original and find it can't be fixed. The old engine could still be worth a few bucks. As the short block is will be ok most likely.
Swap the belt on the replacement motor regardless

[sambb]

If you're in sydney mate i'll have a complete engine in a few days. Get quotes on others and then PM me and let me know what you're best quote was and i'll see what I can do.

[Switch]

Thanks for all your help.
Mechanic called today and said leak test and boroscope test revealed no damage to the engine and he replaced the timing belt with waterpump etc... $1200 and i just picked the car up.

Ty

[simon k]

fark, that's lucky - you dodged a pretty big bullet there - I'm glad I was wrong!