Idea for better FMIC plumbing

[simon k]

damn... that's just about spot on for me

[sambb]

thanks Redliner. I thought I was being all original but done before! Thats what I'll be doing then. Not much to move around, I have two compressor exit pipes so I can chop one of them and probably re weld so it'll feed around to the new core, i'll still be able to run the currect TIP/airbox, N75 and DV pick up points retained, and plenty of room for an engine bay header tank that can be big enough to get ice into on the passenger side. The parts gathering mission has now begun.. Is that a random web pic or do you know who that pic/setup came from?

[rgvlee]

Looks like it'll be a orders of magnitude shorter intake

[sambb]

that looks like a Mk4 but I think we can still get the core down the side like that. Yep good bye lag!

[sambb]

any reason why you cant just use a cleaned out air con condenser as a water to air IC heat exchanger?

[simon k]

I thought about that too - there's also the option of a big car heater core, but then I was reading things that said A/C condensers and heater cores weren't all that efficient for taking heat out of water...

[sambb]

It seems the heat exchangers need a fairly high flow capacity, higher even than a normal radiator (not sure why really) so yeah I cant see a condensor flowing that fast. That would have been too easy - bye bye air con = ready made/mounted exchanger.

[sambb]

some light breakfast reading: running air con fluid as the coolant through the water to air core. Would be brilliant for street cars and hillclimbers

http://iosrjournals.org/iosr-jmce/papers/vol2-issue3/F0233844.pdf?id=2616

There's a company in the states that sells the bits to do this on LS's that a friend was telling me about but I cant find them..

[simon k]

no battery...

[rgvlee]

Yeah just pop it in the boot. I'm going to do it at some point anyway to get back some engine bay space.

[vwthunder]

No Battery also, been running this setup for years

[Redliner]

Sam, the pic was just one of many that I saved to gauge the best layout for the S3. Sorry, I'm not sure what car it is.

[sambb]

No worries. Had a good chat with a mate of mine who has a Celica GT4 with the ST205 factory water to air intercooler. He'd have a lot more power than me, upwards of 300hp crank, and said that all he had to do to keep his inlet temps in the right spot as he added power was upgrade the heat exchanger. When the factory one wasn't cutting it he went to a PWR tube and fin style and then recently to a bar and plate. Sounds like you really have to think holistically with water to air - no good having the best plazmaman core if the exchanger isn't up to it but conversely smaller cores than you think will work great provided they are proper water to air cores and complemented by good heat exchangers. It will cost more to do it than air to air, no doubt about that but I think for a multi use car its going to be hard to beat.

[Sydneykid]

Given "equal quality", for over time heat transfer, tube and fin is better hence most often used in circuit racing. Exactly the same logic as for a normal radiator, air con heat exchanger etc. For drags (and arguably hillclimbs) bar and plate is better as they stay cooler longer, due to simply having more material to heat up. The downside is they disrupt the external air flow through them to a greater extent, so best not used in parallel with other heat exchangers. Obviously "equal quality" is the trick question.

For a circuit race car and a road car, an air to air tube and fin I/C is probably the better choice. But for short timed events (drags, hillclimbs, time attack etc) air to ice water is definitely the better choice. Choosing between a tube and fin or a bar and plate heat exchanger is more related to its location and access to airflow.


Cheers
Gary

[sambb]

Just had the car in a thousand pieces doing a cam cover gasket and a timing belt. With everything more or less exposed I was able to run a tape measure over the intercooler pipework route for a SEAT Sport FMIC. The length of the inlet tract is 3.4m!!!! and that was a flexible ladies sewing tape measure to properly trace it and I measured the double pass turn around at the end tank of the IC as half its height. 50mm pipework (say 48mm ID) over that length comes out at 6153 cubic cm's. think that's right. That seems like a lot of pipe to fill. DV relocation helped big time for me but there's got to be a lot of lag in that.