simon's learning what to do with the polo thread

[sambb]

Simon I swapped out my 150mm MCA (I think King make them) springs from the front and went to the same 7kg/mm rate but 200mm long. At a ride height that gave control arm angles that sloped slightly downward towards the ball joint, the 150mm springs were going to coil bind with minimal travel. The 200mm ones gave me another nearly 10mm of stroke so that at least I could get into the bump stop before the spring coil bound, but even then more bump travel would be nice. As Gary had said to me the better the quality spring the better the steel and the less coils of thinner wire they can get away with for the same rate which makes the spring less prone to coil bind - so it would be worth spending the dollars on the good quality ones. Having said that if you are really tight on bucks for the conversion and just want to get running around you are more than welcome to my 150mm ones, but if you want to spend more initially so that you don't have to double do jobs later to get them right then get the top shelf springs like I should have.

[simon k]

I was worried you'd say something like that about the top spring seat... I don't think there is a spherical bearing on the standard strut top, the spring sits into a thrust bearing (5) which locates into the bottom of the strut mount (6) and that is solid bolted to the body. The strut itself goes up through point (A), but there's no spherical bearing in there, it's just a plate that the strut goes through and the nut is done up tight on it.

The strut mount is a bit squishy so it must just deflect a bit when adding camber/caster. I think Sam's thrust bearings crapped themselves when he first put camber into his car - the spring wasn't sitting square because of the misalignment between the mount/bearing and the strut. This must mean that there is a bit of flex around the plate where the strut goes through the mounting (A)



The strut leg is easy (B) - OD is 50mm - the old strut is a smidge under 50mm (like 49.7) to fit into the hub - the Bilstein took its place so is the same...

[simon k]

picture did something weird there

[sambb]

Simon you said you'd fitted the super pro ball joints to yours.
Did they fit in the same way I did my TT ones?
What were the castor numbers before and after? Any caster gain?
Did they have a higher ball joint spigot/ bring the pivot lower off the bottom of the hub for RC correction, more so than the stockers?

[simon k]

Simon you said you'd fitted the super pro ball joints to yours.
Did they fit in the same way I did my TT ones?
What were the castor numbers before and after? Any caster gain?
Did they have a higher ball joint spigot/ bring the pivot lower off the bottom of the hub for RC correction, more so than the stockers?

nup, dunno where you got that from Sam - not superpro

I put in the same as yours but filed the slots differently, I didn't drill a new hole in the arm, I moved the front and centre holes closer together. Which tipped them forwards so I think my balljoint is 5mm further in than yours in terms of camber gain but should have more caster than you - not that I've measured anything - something isn't even because it pulls to the left a little bit.

I need to make a thing for measuring camber and caster better than holding my phone up to the wheel

[sambb]

oh Ok imagining things. Think I'll take mine apart and have a look at whether more caster is available. I think I had pulled them right out to get max camber (prior to the MCA's and their adjustable tops) but from memory there was a bit more caster to be had if I had them in a bit too - I could get a bit of a forward twist on them if I remember. Probably time for a new set of bolts in them too just to be safe.
Had you fit rear LCA bushes for more caster at the same time?

[simon k]

oh Ok imagining things. Think I'll take mine apart and have a look at whether more caster is available. I think I had pulled them right out to get max camber (prior to the MCA's and their adjustable tops) but from memory there was a bit more caster to be had if I had them in a bit too - I could get a bit of a forward twist on them if I remember. Probably time for a new set of bolts in them too just to be safe.
Had you fit rear LCA bushes for more caster at the same time?

I did talk to about the superpro balljoints at one point - they weren't much more expensive than buying standard TT balljoints in Australia, but then we talked about getting them from EU

And yep, I did fit the LCA bushes in full caster gain mode, hence wanted to know about how much thread is left inside the tie rod end...

[sambb]

How much caster did you pick up before and after

[simon k]

How much caster did you pick up before and after

NFI, see above

I need to make a thing for measuring camber and caster better than holding my phone up to the wheel

[Sydneykid]

I've been caught out a couple of times interstate without my camber gauge and used my phone instead. I just cut a piece of aluminium angle to the right length so it sits on the rim, stick the phone to it with some blue tack or double sided tape. I even used velcro once. Using that, camber is easy to measure, just correct for any ground slope.

For measuring caster, which is camber change over +20 and -20 = 40 degrees of steering angle, I get the wheel aligner to tell me how many turns of the steering wheel equals 20 degrees. Then I write that down in the book, that lives with every car I look after. So when I want to do an alignment at the track I only need to turn the steering wheel the appropriate amount (ie; not use turn plates). I do roll the car back and forwards a little to release any angle restriction from the turning. At home I have 2 pieces of 3 mm thick alloy sheet, greased in between, that I use as cheap (and lightweight) turn plates.

Of course these days "book" equals iPad with settings loaded in the cloud so that I can pull them down anywhere anytime.

Cheers
Gary

[simon k]

I wonder whether it's worth burning $50 on a set of these - 2Pcs Adj. Front Camber Plate Plates Top Mount for BMW 3 Series E36 M3 318i 323i | eBay

It's safe to assume that the bearings are rubbish, but look replaceable...

I can draw up and get a top plate cut to suit the Polo, so I only need the plate that holds the bearing.... I could buy the bearing retainer and make a plate, but it's about the same cost as buying the above and throwing away what I don't want

[simon k]

ahhh, got me again, I take ages to type something because I'm working as well, then someone posts while I'm mucking about

I've been caught out a couple of times interstate without my camber gauge and used my phone instead. I just cut a piece of aluminium angle to the right length so it sits on the rim, stick the phone to it with some blue tack or double sided tape. I even used velcro once. Using that, camber is easy to measure, just correct for any ground slope.

For measuring caster, which is camber change over +20 and -20 = 40 degrees of steering angle, I get the wheel aligner to tell me how many turns of the steering wheel equals 20 degrees. Then I write that down in the book, that lives with every car I look after. So when I want to do an alignment at the track I only need to turn the steering wheel the appropriate amount (ie; not use turn plates). I do roll the car back and forwards a little to release any angle restriction from the turning. At home I have 2 pieces of 3 mm thick alloy sheet, greased in between, that I use as cheap (and lightweight) turn plates.

Of course these days "book" equals iPad with settings loaded in the cloud so that I can pull them down anywhere anytime.

Cheers
Gary

I went to bunnings yesterday and looked at their magnetic protractor/inclinometer, but they're $40 - I think I'll get a cheap digital one off ebay. My phone has buttons on the sides, and the back is curved, so it's a bit hard to be consistent with it!

And yep, from other stuff I was reading about the wheel angle, 20° is just an arbitrary angle they use, as long as it's consistent and repeatable it doesn't matter - a number of turns of the steering wheel is just as good.

I took your advice about the turn plates - I think you've posted it before - I had some bits of scrap stainless and put grease between them when I was redoing the toe after putting the balljoints in

What do you think of getting some of those cheap strut tops to just use the bearing carrier?

[simon k]

I've been caught out a couple of times interstate without my camber gauge and used my phone instead. I just cut a piece of aluminium angle to the right length so it sits on the rim, stick the phone to it with some blue tack or double sided tape. I even used velcro once. Using that, camber is easy to measure, just correct for any ground slope.

I discovered that the back of samsung galaxy tablets are magnetic - we're using one for dashboard in the Honda and it kept sticking to the roof when I was fiddling, I thought it was wet but it wasn't, then it twigged...

[Sydneykid]

I wonder whether it's worth burning $50 on a set of these - 2Pcs Adj. Front Camber Plate Plates Top Mount for BMW 3 Series E36 M3 318i 323i | eBay
It's safe to assume that the bearings are rubbish, but look replaceable...
I can draw up and get a top plate cut to suit the Polo, so I only need the plate that holds the bearing.... I could buy the bearing retainer and make a plate, but it's about the same cost as buying the above and throwing away what I don't want

Shoot $48 the Chinese repetition shops are taking over the world.

Once the profile master is stamped the bearings are the most costly part, so that's where the cost cutting kicks in. They occasionally use an obscure bearing size so try and establish the dimensions before you buy them. Then price a decent quality replacement from CBC etc. Especially check that the spherical ID matches the shock shaft OD.


Cheers
Gary

[simon k]

Shoot $48 the Chinese repetition shops are taking over the world.

Once the profile master is stamped the bearings are the most costly part, so that's where the cost cutting kicks in. They occasionally use an obscure bearing size so try and establish the dimensions before you buy them. Then price a decent quality replacement from CBC etc. Especially check that the spherical ID matches the shock shaft OD.


Cheers
Gary

got it - so maybe worth rolling the dice

I've asked the seller for some dimensions already - I doubt I'll get anything intelligent, but we'll see...

I think I'll be taking a shock assembly out tomorrow to do some measuring