Nitrogen in tyres.

[Deleted User 0001]

Howdy from the North. Just put nitrogen in all my tyres, recommended pressures. $30 at Bob Jane's. Go check after sale at any time, free FYI Nitrogen is an inert gas and does not increase/decrease with temperature, therefore only needs a check every 3 months, if that. Better tyre wear Ex. Aircraft Engineer

[Guest001]

The only thing that nitrogen does in car tyres is lighten your wallet. It is used in aircraft because it doesnt expand at height like ordinary air does. There is no noticeable benefit in your car

[staz88]

Yep, it's a cash grabbing gimmick.

[NuffNuff]

from memory on a track its more consistent in pressure rise due to heat. air is inconsistent pump to pump due to water etc

on the street, useless.

any water vapour or air ruins the fill

[alexaescht]

any water vapour or air ruins the fill

Haha yep, and I really doubt they pull a vacuum on the tires as they seat them on the rim to ensure there's no air in there before the nitrogen fill. Air is already mostly nitrogen so you're wasting your money paying $30 for a fill that's probably not even pure nitrogen.

[jimmedy]

I opted for Nitrogen when I got my tires switched onto to my new rims not long after delivery of my car - but it was 'only' $4 a corner, and so @ $16 I thought what the hell.

Now whether or not it's the Nitrogen or whether it's just that my tires are really well mated to the rims and my valves are great too - but I lost only 1 psi in 1 tire over the first 11,000 kms. The other 3 were at the same psi I drove away with on fitment when I went back for a rotate / balance / align.

I got them to bump it up further from 38 all round to 40 psi, which they did for free, and yet again, I checked at the servo the other day and they were only down at 39 after another 12,000 k's. I probably let more air out with the servo hose that got out of its own accord.

My rationale is that it gives me a little more predictability as I like to run the pressure very high but I don't want too many further fluctuations due to temp.

So, certainly I take the claims of the people making a lot of money off this with a grain of salt (and $30 seems a stretch). But for $16 I went for it... *shrug*. If anything they'll keep getting my business every 10,000 for my rotate / balance / align because their original fitment was top notch.

[Sydneykid]

As high school science tells us, atmospheric air is around 78% nitrogen, so there are no miracles in increasing that to 99.99% nitrogen. For example it won't reduce pressure drop over time, stop leaks or reduce punctures.

We use nitrogen in the race car tyres for consistency, as pointed out above there is variability in the air pumped straight from atmosphere, particularly humidity. The other, but related issue, for using nitrogen is the reduced pressure increase as a result of increases in tyre and wheel temperature. In some categories, during a race, we can expect upwards of 10 psi increase in pressure partially due to the separation (into hydrogen and oxygen) of any water vapour present. Using bottled pure nitrogen removes the possibility of any water vapour. In addition nitrogen expands at a slightly slower rate than atmospheric air. Hence we get 25% to 30% less tyre pressure growth during a race.


My view, there are good reasons for using nitrogen in race car tyres, not so much in road car tyres.


Cheers
Gary

[ill0gitech]

Nitrogen has a larger atomic size, therefore it doesn't leak as quickly as oxygen does

Not worth the money in my opinion, particularly when you get sales spiels like the above. "Bring your car in every three months" sounds like a way to get money out of you every three months, as well as "Oh, you need a wheel alignment" and "you're tread is a little low, so we replaced your tyres, that will be $2,000.
Whilst I'm interested in the observation from Jimmedy above, I don't recall ever having issues with needing to constantly check tyre pressure a lot, or considerable drops in PSI that wasn't related to a puncture.

[Guest001]

Unless you create a vacuum before you pump up with Nitrogen surely you are going to have a fairly large % of air in there already.

So why dilute the nitrogen and what advantage are you going to get whilst still having the air in there.

Seems like is all marketing to me.

[Sydneykid]

Unless you create a vacuum before you pump up with Nitrogen surely you are going to have a fairly large % of air in there already.
So why dilute the nitrogen and what advantage are you going to get whilst still having the air in there.
Seems like is all marketing to me.

For race car tyres we have several different processes. A simple double purge and refill gives 98% of the desired result ie; only leaves 2% of non nitrogen in the tyre. On some cars we have 2 valves, 180 degrees opposed, we fill from one with nitrogen while leaving the other open. That gives a 99% result. We also have an ex air con vacuum pump which when used to purge to minus 20 psi gives a similar 99% result. The results are judged by the tyre pressure increase when compared to a from zero fill (ie; at fitment) with nitrogen.


Cheers
Gary

[Guest001]

For race car tyres we have several different processes. A simple double purge and refill gives 98% of the desired result ie; only leaves 2% of non nitrogen in the tyre. On some cars we have 2 valves, 180 degrees opposed, we fill from one with nitrogen while leaving the other open. That gives a 99% result. We also have an ex air con vacuum pump which when used to purge to minus 20 psi gives a similar 99% result. The results are judged by the tyre pressure increase when compared to a from zero fill (ie; at fitment) with nitrogen.


Cheers
Gary

I accept you do it right but for the average Joe he will go into a tyre place and they will probably pull the valve (if you are lucky) let tyre down and refit valve core and pump it up again. Still has air in it so whats the point.

Oh I forgot its to make money from suckers

[jimmedy]

Whilst I'm interested in the observation from Jimmedy above, I don't recall ever having issues with needing to constantly check tyre pressure a lot, or considerable drops in PSI that wasn't related to a puncture.

Yes, that's my assessment of things too - good tires well fitted to good rims shouldn't be leaking anyway.
I'm happy enough with a test of my thumb against the sidewall to alert me to any significant changes in pressure.

I do rotate and align every 10,000ish, and so my instructions are to check and top up, and the last two times they've told me there was basically no top up needed.

It's only this occasion that I'm waiting for a fitment of coilovers, ARB's and control arm bushings in the immediate future, I thought I'd get the alignment done after all that so I'm a couple of thousand k's 'overdue' based on my own schedule. That's the only reason I ended up at a servo checking pressure with their air hose.

It's a personal thing up to a point, and like I said, for $4 a corner, if even some of the associated claims are true, then I'm ok with that amount of money. But strangely enough for $8 a corner, like OP, I'd start to get suspicious.

Running at 40 psi, I don't want it climbing radically higher if I'm pushing it hard through the corners on a summer day, so if it just keeps the pressure more stable for me it's money well spent. YMMV.

[Sydneykid]

I accept you do it right but for the average Joe he will go into a tyre place and they will probably pull the valve (if you are lucky) let tyre down and refit valve core and pump it up again. Still has air in it so whats the point.

There are a couple off tricks that I have taught the tyre service outlets where I have done alignment product training courses at. If they are going to do a single valve purge and refill then they should do it when the tyre is hot, so the water vapour has a chance of being split onto oxygen and hydrogen. That applies whether they are doing a single or a double purge and refill. I suspect that the higher prices charged may relate to the number of purges and refills as well as drive time to warm up the tyres. Some tyre outlets do have dehumidifiers in their compressor process, so they should have less water vapour to purge.


Cheers
Gary

[alexaescht]

There are a couple off tricks that I have taught the tyre service outlets where I have done alignment product training courses at. If they are going to do a single valve purge and refill then they should do it when the tyre is hot, so the water vapour has a chance of being split onto oxygen and nitrogen. That applies whether they are doing a single or a double purge and refill. I suspect that the higher prices charged may relate to the number of purges and refills as well as drive time to warm up the tyres. Some tyre outlets do have dehumidifiers in their compressor process, so they should have less water vapour to purge.


Cheers
Gary

Oxygen and nitrogen? Water is made of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom and heating water does not cause it to split up. Think about it, when you boil a kettle of water, the vapour that comes out as steam is water vapour, not hydrogen or oxygen as individual elements. Water will only split into hydrogen and oxygen through special processes. Heat will not do it.

[brad]

Howdy from the North. Just put nitrogen in all my tyres, recommended pressures. $30 at Bob Jane's. Go check after sale at any time, free FYI Nitrogen is an inert gas and does not increase/decrease with temperature, therefore only needs a check every 3 months, if that. Better tyre wear Ex. Aircraft Engineer

If you are an ex-aircraft engineer then you'll know that you don't take your vehicle to 10,000m / -50c.

Nitrogen on aircraft wheel assemblies is very good and has many benefits. Not so much on on motor vehicle wheel assemblies.

If it makes you feel good then that's great.

BTW, my local tyre place does it for $5/wheel