APR Polo GTI - This months Motor mag (JUN)

[Frostee]

I like the idea, but I won't be taking it up.

I am not convinced the "security" of the flash is invisible. In fact that's expressly stated in this thread, and in principle I have a problem with the concept of "hiding" anything for the purposes of deception.

As long as you realise that if you've done stuff with your car that you haven't declared to your Insurer or Dealer you run the risk of voiding your rights under the terms of those Agreements. I know people will argue with me till they're blue in the face, but I will maintain that I am correct.

Cost versus risk is an equation we deal with often in life - my assessment is that as much as I'd like to tune up my Polo GTI I am not prepared to declare it and realise the associated costs that would ensure I retain my rights both for the VW warranty and the Comprehensive Insurance.

If you're more of a risk taker than me, enjoy your ride!

[philthy]

I like the idea, but I won't be taking it up.

I am not convinced the "security" of the flash is invisible. In fact that's expressly stated in this thread, and in principle I have a problem with the concept of "hiding" anything for the purposes of deception.

As long as you realise that if you've done stuff with your car that you haven't declared to your Insurer or Dealer you run the risk of voiding your rights under the terms of those Agreements. I know people will argue with me till they're blue in the face, but I will maintain that I am correct.

Cost versus risk is an equation we deal with often in life - my assessment is that as much as I'd like to tune up my Polo GTI I am not prepared to declare it and realise the associated costs that would ensure I retain my rights both for the VW warranty and the Comprehensive Insurance.

If you're more of a risk taker than me, enjoy your ride!

It only takes a phone call to tell your insurance you've tuned the car. And if the dealer asks, tell them.

No need to hide it whatsoever.

[Corey_R]

Yep, and NRMA (and all their affilliates), the countries largest insurer, don't care if you have an ECU flash or not...

[RoknRob]

Yep, and NRMA (and all their affilliates), the countries largest insurer, don't care if you have an ECU flash or not...

How do you know this, Corey? You're suggesting my insurance premiums won't go up as a result of this increase in performance? (Will they in fact go down, now that I've got an anti-theft device?!?!!)

Also, to Guy_H, while I appreciate the Dyno figures, what about real world performance? How does the ECU upgrade alone affect the 0-100 times? Obviously the car in the article had more modifications than the ECU upgrade...
And in your opinion, shouldn't owners wait until after the break in period to have it installed? I know Corey has his opinion - the sooner the better! - but I wouldn't mind hearing it from the horse's mouth, so to speak....

Anyway, hope to make it out there for a test drive soon!

[Corey_R]

How do I know? Cause I'm a customer of theirs. Because their PDS, operators, and websites document this. You no longer even have to list your modifications with them... they leave it to the owner to ensure that their car is roadworthy (which has always been the case anyway - they just are no longer trying to interpret/enforce regulations).

It's well known that NRMA have greatly changed the way they operate. They no longer ask for you to list any modifications, options or accessories (unless its stuff like GPS tracking etc). All they want to know is your details and history, the type of car you have, the type of insurance you want, the amount you wish to cover including the cost of all options, modifications and accessories, and the amount of excess you pay. So you literally have a screen at the end of your insurance quote with two sliders (one for the value to insure, one for the excess).

So correct. You're insurance premium from NRMA won't change a cent, unless you want to increase the amount covered to account for the purchase price of the ECU... so in this respect, it's no different from getting your windows tinted, or changing your wheels, and having them covered etc.

There is plenty of discussion in the insurance threads and ECU forums about which insurance companies are ok with modifications. The R is my 2nd modified VW insured with NRMA. I also had two modified VW's insured with Shannons (though their premiums increase with the level of modifications).


"Real world" figures are about as difficult to quantify, if not more difficult, than Dyno figures. Have a look at the hundreds of pages of arguments in the Golf forums on that topic


As for when to modify - the Polo in the article was modified immediately. The Golf R which it replaced was also modified immediately (both with less than a few hundred K). So what do you think the answer will be

My opinion is get the modifications when you're comfortable with the car

[Blitzen]

I have ALL of my mods listed with AAMI, and my premium didn't go up when I got my APR flash...

[RoknRob]

While I appreciate that you are a customer of theirs, Corey, and that they won't ask you about modifications - I'm with them, too, btw - I am amazed that an insurance company would not try to have you pay for their increased risk. A car altered for higher performance MUST be more risky from their point of view. Sure, the agreed value doesn't change, but you are more likely to make a claim, when you are more likely to skid off the road.

So, while you have had several cars insured by them, the proof is in how difficult was it to get them to pay out a claim on a modified car? Have you ever needed to do so? Every insurance company I've ever had dealings with was my best friend when it was time to take my money. But when I made a claim... even when it was obviously not my fault... it was another story. I could just imagine a mod like this being a great excuse not to pay out.

Maybe they are big enough to absorb it. I am encouraged by the fact that the PDS doesn't refer to it. Nevertheless, I would definitely disclose such a mod to the company, and ideally get an acknowledgment in writing.

Good news, Blitzen. I am again amazed...

I think I see how NRMA get around it, though. Looking at the PDS, they will reduce the amount of your claim (or cancel your policy, or refuse the claim) if you drive recklessly (modified or not). Also, if you don't tell them you use your car at a motor vehicle club, bash or charity event... (track?)

[Blitzen]

I'm going through a claim right now actually... The question about mods didn't come up at all, even at the assessing center with the bonnet up and all my mods in plain view... The proof is in the pudding...
This is the second claim I have gone through with all my mods listed, and NOTHING has been said by the insurer. If that doesn't make it clear, I don't know what can. And people who know my car can attest that it's obviously not stock looking in the engine bay... (In case you were wondering, both accidents were claims made by me, one my fault, and one a collision with a Kangaroo.
If you are not satisfied by NRMA, why not look at Shannons? They do cover you for track use, they cover you mods, just like most insurers (other than Allianz that I know of...).

And to be brutally honest, how often is the insurance company going to know that you have a tuned ECU?? There is nothing from the outside of the car that obviously shows that you do like a loud exhaust, or bigger wheels... It's not like you have a blower hanging off your ECU casing!!

[RoknRob]

That's great news, Blitz. As you say the proof is in the pudding.

Btw, I never said I was unhappy with NRMA. On the contrary, I appreciate the ease of getting a quote, and their low price. If they're happy to let me soup up my car without penalty, it is a bonus.

[gavs]

Just as a follow up, I understand exactly where you're coming from RoknRob because I waited 9 goddamn months for a claim to be processed with RACV, aka NRMA when I was not at fault but instead of doing the job that I have so happily paid them to do after being so helpfull at the time they take the cash, the claims manager lied barefaced to me about obtaining a specific report that showed in the records of said department, no request had ever put in for, hence I had to pay out of my own pocket to get my car sorted. Granted, it ended up being an only minor repar but still, I wonder how confident people insured with NRMA will be when it comes to claim time.....

[Corey_R]

In any case - lets move the discussion to an insurance thread if you want to keep it going. Insurance is a topic that could fill many threads, and it's been proven enough already in this thread that insurance companies are willing to accept cars with modifications within reason.

[Guy_H]

Can this be had with the current 15% off? If so, around $1200 for the rest of the month will be very tempting for those interested in APR tunes.

Sure is!!!!!!

[Guy_H]

I like the idea, but I won't be taking it up.

I am not convinced the "security" of the flash is invisible. In fact that's expressly stated in this thread, and in principle I have a problem with the concept of "hiding" anything for the purposes of deception.

As long as you realise that if you've done stuff with your car that you haven't declared to your Insurer or Dealer you run the risk of voiding your rights under the terms of those Agreements. I know people will argue with me till they're blue in the face, but I will maintain that I am correct.

Cost versus risk is an equation we deal with often in life - my assessment is that as much as I'd like to tune up my Polo GTI I am not prepared to declare it and realise the associated costs that would ensure I retain my rights both for the VW warranty and the Comprehensive Insurance.

If you're more of a risk taker than me, enjoy your ride!

Frostee, the concept was not created for "deception" at all, and we never suggest you don't declare mods to your insurer or dealer. Our EMCS system simply gives the end user many options, its completely up to them how to use it. & yes, it is invisible as described - no more, no less. We would love every car to have an APR Tuned badge on it, but not every customer wants that.

As you can see by our car (with the signwriting on it), we have EMCS, our car is dealer serviced - we certainly are not hiding anything.

[Guy_H]

How do you know this, Corey? You're suggesting my insurance premiums won't go up as a result of this increase in performance? (Will they in fact go down, now that I've got an anti-theft device?!?!!)

Also, to Guy_H, while I appreciate the Dyno figures, what about real world performance? How does the ECU upgrade alone affect the 0-100 times? Obviously the car in the article had more modifications than the ECU upgrade...
And in your opinion, shouldn't owners wait until after the break in period to have it installed? I know Corey has his opinion - the sooner the better! - but I wouldn't mind hearing it from the horse's mouth, so to speak....

Anyway, hope to make it out there for a test drive soon!

Real world, on OUR OWN testing on our car with me driving was between .7 & 1.2 seconds quicker than the advertised 0-100. If you have ever tried to measure your own 0-100, like us, you will generally see the figures vary ~ 2 seconds.

We suggest you run the car pretty hard right from day one. DO NOT baby the car at all, cars that use oil over the life of the vehicle generally had a "soft" break in.

On our cars they get run pretty hard & then an oil change @ 1500km's. They never use oil after that.

[Frostee]

Frostee, the concept was not created for "deception" at all, and we never suggest you don't declare mods to your insurer or dealer. Our EMCS system simply gives the end user many options, its completely up to them how to use it. & yes, it is invisible as described - no more, no less. We would love every car to have an APR Tuned badge on it, but not every customer wants that.

As you can see by our car (with the signwriting on it), we have EMCS, our car is dealer serviced - we certainly are not hiding anything.

Fair enough.
If a cstomer chooses it to be invisible then I can only conclude that it is their intent to hide it rather than openly declare it. Out of interest, do you offer the tune to be visible, to satisfy those customers who don't want to hide the fact they have made changes?