Bi-Xenons with LED running lights - upgrade to non-xenon cars?

[gavs]

Links Here:
Third Edition Australian Design Rules
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 13/00 - Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles) 2005
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 45/01 - Lighting and Light Signalling Devices not Covered by ECE Regulations) 2006


HID Specifics:
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 75/00 - Headlamp Cleaners) 2006
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 77/00 - Gas Discharge Headlamps) 2006
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 78/00 - Gas Discharge Light Sources) 2006

[broxigar1983]

fixed links

Links Here:
Third Edition Australian Design Rules
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 13/00 - Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles) 2005
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 45/01 - Lighting and Light Signalling Devices not Covered by ECE Regulations) 2006


HID Specifics:
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 75/00 - Headlamp Cleaners) 2006
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 77/00 - Gas Discharge Headlamps) 2006
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 78/00 - Gas Discharge Light Sources) 2006

[gavs]

Ta ooops, not 10 characters.

[Guest]

Ok so dont flame me as im abit of a noob and dont know much and ive got a quick questions,
So ive seen that you can pick up a pair of the Polos GTI xenon lens online for about a grand, and i know that the HID lights are illegal to install without washers and other parts, BUT if i solely wanted them for the LED lights could i install a pair of the GTI headlight casings with the GTI lights and use my factory light bulbs and still make it legal, im not after the blue or white headlights i solely want it for the led lights, or am i dreaming and this is sill highly illegal

[Corey_R]

The Xenon lights are projection based.

The halogen lights are reflective based.
Even if the bulb fittings were the same (I don't know if they are or not), I can't imagine the light output of a halogen bulb is enough to work in a projection housing instead of a reflective housing. And either way, I think it's primarily the projection design which means you have a legal requirement to have washers and motors and leveling sensors etc, not the fact that the bulb is xenon. (Since there are non-projection Xenons such as from Mazda, Honda, even Subaru? which don't have washers/motors/leveling sensors etc)

[pologti18t]

The Xenon lights are projection based.

The halogen lights are reflective based.
Even if the bulb fittings were the same (I don't know if they are or not), I can't imagine the light output of a halogen bulb is enough to work in a projection housing instead of a reflective housing. And either way, I think it's primarily the projection design which means you have a legal requirement to have washers and motors and leveling sensors etc, not the fact that the bulb is xenon. (Since there are non-projection Xenons such as from Mazda, Honda, even Subaru? which don't have washers/motors/leveling sensors etc)

All HID headlights for Australian delivered cars MUST have washers and self levelling.

You can see this on Lexus with HID. Several models use reflector based headlights with HID and they self levelling and headlight washers.

The bulbs for HID reflector designs and projector designs are different (S or R suffix??)
HID bulbs don't work in halogen projector or halogon reflector assembles simply because the focal point of the light for each light source is different.

[Corey_R]

Yeah - maybe I'm confused.... maybe they have projection lights with halogen globes or something...

Either way, as you noted, the designs are different and therefore not suited to swapping.

[brad]

The Xenon lights are projection based.

The halogen lights are reflective based.
Even if the bulb fittings were the same (I don't know if they are or not), I can't imagine the light output of a halogen bulb is enough to work in a projection housing instead of a reflective housing. And either way, I think it's primarily the projection design which means you have a legal requirement to have washers and motors and leveling sensors etc, not the fact that the bulb is xenon. (Since there are non-projection Xenons such as from Mazda, Honda, even Subaru? which don't have washers/motors/leveling sensors etc)

not sure if this helps (or they are what the OP is talking about) but:
*my 1997 Gen2 liberty had projector lense foglamps with factory halogen globes.
*my 2007 Skoda Octavia has projector lowbeams with factory halogens.
*my wife's 2011 Mondeo has projector low beams that do the up/down/side/side dance and even have a fake blue tinge but are halogen bulbs (I realised when I was trying to find the headlamp washers).
*possibly/maybe her VE Calais had projectors with halogen bulbs

PS: I don't think the light output is anything to write home about

[Corey_R]

Thanks brad. Yeah, these are examples of what I'm talking about. They "look" like HID headlights, but they're not because they don't have the required washers and are often on cars below the price that you'd expect genuine Xenon lights.

I would presume they use a different type of bulb compared to a reflector setup, as pologti18t mentioned, and whether those bulbs would fit into a Xenon HID projector setup... I doubt it though.

[gavs]

Well, my old man's captiva has Projector lenses with Halogens, the old Supras and Soarers had them too so It just comes down to packaging.

For dipped beam use, Xenons need to be in projector lenses due to the ability to control the throw of light. I have never seen reflector used with HID on a Lexus, Mazda or Honda, all factory fitted HID systems use the projector lense, otherwise you end up with a giant light blob and blind the crap out of on-comming traffic.

I am willing to be proven wrong though....

[brad]

Thanks brad. Yeah, these are examples of what I'm talking about. They "look" like HID headlights, but they're not because they don't have the required washers and are often on cars below the price that you'd expect genuine Xenon lights.

I would presume they use a different type of bulb compared to a reflector setup, as pologti18t mentioned, and whether those bulbs would fit into a Xenon HID projector setup... I doubt it though.

Well, the bloody Mondeo should have Xenon bulbs as Ford have wasted plenty of money fitting other useless "technology".

The halogen bulb is the same construction/dimensions whether it be in a reflector or projector housing.

The xenon bulb differs from reflector to projector housing. I always thought the R type bulbs were dodgy bulbs sold to show-offs as the reflector housing scattered light too much but obviously I'm wrong.

It isn't a hard job to fit xenons into a halogen projector housing. I'm not sure about halogens into a xenon housing though & apart from the OPs reason (wanting the LEDs), can't see why you would.

[Diesel_vert]

The rules state that if the bulb output exceeds 2000 lumen (e.g. OEM HID bulb = 3200 lumen), then you need washers and auto levellers.

I don't believe projector or reflective headlamps have anything to do with the above rule.

[GTI JOE]

Well, my old man's captiva has Projector lenses with Halogens, the old Supras and Soarers had them too so It just comes down to packaging.

For dipped beam use, Xenons need to be in projector lenses due to the ability to control the throw of light. I have never seen reflector used with HID on a Lexus, Mazda or Honda, all factory fitted HID systems use the projector lense, otherwise you end up with a giant light blob and blind the crap out of on-comming traffic.

I am willing to be proven wrong though....

Believe me, there are cars with that configuration on the streets. Big ball of blue light, looks like high beams are on all the time. Hopefully they will attract Inspector Plod one of these days.

[pologti18t]

For dipped beam use, Xenons need to be in projector lenses due to the ability to control the throw of light. I have never seen reflector used with HID on a Lexus, Mazda or Honda, all factory fitted HID systems use the projector lense, otherwise you end up with a giant light blob and blind the crap out of on-comming traffic.

I am willing to be proven wrong though....

The old model IS200/IS300 had reflector lenses when fitted with HID.



Certain old E mercs had reflector lenses when fitted with HID

[Mountainman]

Well, my old man's captiva has Projector lenses with Halogens, the old Supras and Soarers had them too so It just comes down to packaging.

For dipped beam use, Xenons need to be in projector lenses due to the ability to control the throw of light. I have never seen reflector used with HID on a Lexus, Mazda or Honda, all factory fitted HID systems use the projector lense, otherwise you end up with a giant light blob and blind the crap out of on-comming traffic.

I am willing to be proven wrong though....

My Forester XT comes standard with reflector lenses and xenon bulbs with washers and self levelling for low beam and reflector halogens for high beams. The low beam does not adjust to high beam when high beam is on like happens in cars that have separate high/low all halogens. The xenon reflector (and of course the bulb) is different from the reflector in the standard Forester but this is not obvious to an untrained eye. It sure is when the lights are turned on though. My sister's Lexus IS200 had the same set-up as my Forester as far as I could tell and there are other models mentioned above also.