Bi-Xenons with LED running lights - upgrade to non-xenon cars?

[sVWatt]

OEM Bi-Xenon Headlights with LED. For VW Polo 6r 2009+ listed on eBay.

Roughly $1600 a pair. Is that good?

Recon we could get it down to $1400 with a couple of buyers...

...thoughts?

[Corey_R]

Keep in mind, that if you wish for your car to still be road legal/road worthy, you'll also need to get the headlight washers, headlight motors, and all the sensors which need to be placed around the car (or whereever they go in the Polo GTI) to perform the auto-leveling functions (which is dynamic as the car is driving, hence the need for sensors).

Without the sensors/motors and washers, your car is illegal in Australia with Xenons.

Thus far in history, you cannot install Xenons cheaper aftermarket than from the factory. This may eventually change, but that's still the case at the Golf level at least...

[JaneAusten]

I think the problem is making it legal, meaning all the other components need to be installed into the bumper. Like the self-leveling thingy and the washing thingy.

[Frostee]

As far as I know $1600 is list price when fitted as a option from the factory. You'd want much better than $1400 IMO

[sVWatt]

Cricky
How come it 'needs' to be self leveling. I would have thought the angle / alignment was a legal requirement, and that was it.

What has headlight washers got to do with keeping Xenons legal ?

There goes my Monday happy dreams

[JaneAusten]

Corey, thanks for ruining my one chance to sound smart on this forum. Happy motoring.

[sVWatt]

Smart is keeping each other posted. I am learning heaps - cheers.

As far as I know $1600 is list price when fitted as a option from the factory. You'd want much better than $1400 IMO

So can I order with the dealer now and they can fir for me - all parts needed - or is it from the manufacturer only at that price ?

[Corey_R]

Corey, thanks for ruining my one chance to sound smart on this forum. Happy motoring.

lol.. sorry!

Cricky
How come it 'needs' to be self leveling. I would have thought the angle / alignment was a legal requirement, and that was it.

What has headlight washers got to do with keeping Xenons legal ?

There goes my Monday happy dreams

Sorry!
Regular headlights are "reflective" lights. So the light basically shines backwards and sidewards to the "reflector" which then has multiple faces which reflects it forward over a wide spread.
Xenon headlights are projector lights. You have a lens which highly focuses and projects the light forward. If you have dirt on the plastic headlight cover in front of the lens, it can cause light refractions which can blind oncoming drivers. Hence the requirement for headlight washers.
Also, due to the light being very intense, and them being "projecting", there is a very distinct upper cut-off in the projection so that it doesn't go into oncoming drivers eyes. But this means when you go over bumps or humps etc that it needs to firstly lower the lights (to keep out of drivers eyes) and then raise the lights (so that you can see more than 2 metres ahead) etc.

The main reasons that these kits exist is that not all countries require washers or self-leveling. But in Australia, both are required by our ADRs.

[Corey_R]

So can I order with the dealer now and they can fir for me - all parts needed - or is it from the manufacturer only at that price ?

Factory orders only unfortunately. I don't believe that most (any?) dealers would install them at all....

[sVWatt]

Just spoke with the UK ebayer and he says some programing and extra equip is necessary ... So it's a no go for sure.

Thanks for the enlightening insights...no pun

[Corey_R]

I personally find it annoying that none of these guys ever offer "the full kit". If they did, MAYBE it'd then be possible to install by the "adventurous" forum members!

[Jules]

If I had the option of having a car with Xenons for immediate delivery, I wouldn't have hesitated. Retrofitting is just too hard to keep it legal. Then again, that doesn't stop a lot of people doing it. I know a few owners with retrofitted xenons on their MkVs. Some would argue as long as it looks stock and you haven't gone for BMW-esque corona rings, you may escape scrutiny, especially if they're properly adjusted. The worst ones are cheap retrofitted xenon bulbs that are the wrong colour (>5000K) in reflector units that scatter light everywhere (there's a Corolla and a Civic that live near me with them- horrible).

I love the xenons on my Golf. Makes a massive difference driving in the country. Not having them on the Polo isn't too big a deal as the standard halogens don't throw a bad light.

Thanks for pointing out the ebay link though I know my friend who also has a Polo GTI is interested.

[gavs]

To give people an idea of why levelers etc are required under the ADR, we consistantly see with lights (mainly aftermarket driving lights) up to a 400% increase in beam intensity and distance over halogens. Some of the HID / Xenon lights reach their fall-off at around 800m, halogen around 200-300m so if a beam of light travels that far from a Xenon (using reflector technology), a projector lense then focuses that light into a concentrated beam, not good for anyone travelling the other way!

Hence why after being in a few cars with HIDs and outback driving at night, I will from now on pay for the HID / Xenon option

[Corey_R]

Yeah... the Golf R's Xenon lights are sensational! In fact, on country roads when you're driving around with the high beams on, if you come up to a "sharp" corner with lots of reflector signs (you know the big yellow and black, or white and black arrows), you have to TURN OFF the high beams because it BLINDS YOU! (the driver! lol). They're awesome

[gavs]

Why you can't LEGALLY fit HID lights to your non HID car.

This is a sticky in the Mk4 forum, but seeing as the conversation has started here, thought i'd put this here for all of those who just hang here

Australian Design Rule 13/00 – Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles

6.2.9. Other requirements

The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam headlamps. Dipped-beam headlamps shall not swivel according to the angle of lock of steering. Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45. In addition, with respect to vertical inclination, the provision of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. shall not be applied when these headlamps are installed.
Paragraph 5.5.2 basically says that if a fitting won't work just by fitting a globe, it's not considered a light. (Ie optional driving lights that aren't fitted aren't lights etc).

And regarding 6.2.6.2.2...


Quote
6.2.6.2.2. However, devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously or non- continuously, shall be permitted, provided they have a stop positon at which the lamps can be returned to the initial inclination defined in paragraph 6.2.6.1.1. by means of the usual adjusting screws or similar means.
These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driver's seat.
Continually adjustable devices must have reference makes indicating the loading conditions that require adjustment of the dipped-beam.
The number of positions on devices which are not continuously adjustable must be such as to ensure compliance with the range of values prescribed in paragraph 6.2.6.1.2. in all the loading conditions defined in Annex 5.
For these devices also, the loading conditions of Annex 5 that require adjustment of the dipped-beam shall be clearly marked near the control of the device (see Annex .

So according to 6.2.9, the part of clause 6.2.6.2.2 that states manual adjustment is permitted, is NOT permitted in the case of HID fitment, ie, manual adjustment isn't allowed. So that means you need to comply with the previous clause, which is shown below:


Quote
6.2.6.2.1. In the case where a headlamp levelling device is necessary to satisfy the requirements of paragraphs 6.2.6.1.1. and 6.2.6.1.2., the device shall be automatic.
Therefore, automatic self levelling is required. (the two paragraphs mentioned refer to the actual specifications for beam angle etc).


But what about ADR 45?, well that refers mainly to signal lamps, but it does outline the colour variations permitted for lighting. I haven't converted the numbers to easy to understand form, but basically, white has to be white, not blue, yellow or purple. Ie 10,000K HID's are illegal.

Quote
Australian Design Rule 45/01 – Lighting and Light Signalling Devices not Covered by ECE Regulations

45.2. GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS

45.2.1. Lamps shall be so designed and constructed that in normal use, despite the vibrations to which they may then be subjected, they continue to function satisfactorily and retain the characteristics prescribed by this Rule.

45.2.2. The colour of the light emitted shall be within the limits of the co-ordinates prescribed in Clause 45.2.2.1 for the colour in question.

45.2.2.1. Colours of Lamps- Trichromatic Co-ordinates

Photometric blah blah stuff.... Just keep it white (ie under 6500K).



Then we get to the gas discharge specific ADR's.....



Quote
Australian Design Rule 75/00 - Headlamp Cleaners

6 GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS

6.1 The headlamp cleaner shall be designed and constructed to clean those parts of the light-emitting surface of the headlamp which distribute the passing beam and the driving beam so that at least the cleaning effect specified in paragraph 7 below is achieved.

6.2 The headlamp cleaner shall be furthermore so designed that:

6.2.1 When parts of the headlamp cleaner in the rest position(s) are on the headlamps' illuminating surface, the photometric values of the headlamps, .... blah blah, not more than a 5% reduction in light output.....

6.2.1.1 Paragraph 6.2.1. is not applicable when the headlamp and the parts of the headlamp cleaner referred to in paragraph 6.2.1. form a complete assembly during the approval of the headland;

6.2.2 During operation, except in the rest position, the mechanical parts shall not cover more than:

6.2.2.1 20 % of the illuminating surface of a passing lamp,

6.2.2.2 10 % of the illuminating surface of a driving lamp with no high beam.

6.2.3 It is able to operate at all temperatures between -10 degrees C and +35 degrees C and to operate satisfactorily at speeds between 0 and 130 km/h (or the maximum speed of the vehicle if it is below 130 km/h); .......... the cleaner shall remain undamaged if exposed to a temperature of -35 degrees C and of +80 degrees C respectively for a period of one hour;

6.2.4 In normal use, in spite of the vibration to which it may be subjected, its satisfactory operation continues to be ensured;

6.2.5 It will not be functionally damaged due to water, ice or snow accumulating on it during normal operation of the vehicle, even if the cleaning liquid is frozen; a temporary failure due to freezing or deposit of snow shall not be considered as damage, provided that the device can be made to work again by simple means;

6.2.6 Elements which may come into contact with the cleaning fluid must be resistant against a mixture consisting of 50 % methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol and 50 % water;

6.2.7 Its parts do not hinder the adjustment of the headlamps or the inserting or changing of filament lamps; if necessary, the cleaner or parts of it may be detachable, if they can be removed with simple tools.

6.3 Parts of the headlamp cleaner which, in the rest position(s) and/or during operation, form part of the external surface of the vehicle, shall meet the following requirements:
6.3.x. goes on to basically state that there are to be no no sharp or pointy parts, like bonnet scoops but scaled down..... Have a read for the details.

Quote
6.5 In case of approval of a vehicle the following requirements shall also be met:

6.5.1 Cleaning of all passing (high beam) headlamps shall be compulsory. If there are more than two driving headlamps, the cleaning of one pair of these headlamps shall be sufficient;

6.5.2 If the cleaner has a fluid container this may be combined with the fluid container for the windscreen washers and the rear window washer.......


ADR 77 states the following items of interest:

Quote
Australian Design Rule 77/00 - Gas Discharge Headlamps


6.1.1 Headlamps shall be so made that with suitable gas-discharge light source they give adequate illuminance without dazzle when emitting the passing beam, and good illumination when emitting the driving beam.

6.1.6 The trichromatic coordinates of the light of the beams emitted by headlamps using gas- discharge light sources must be in the following boundaries:

limit towards:
blue: x > 0.310
yellow: x < 0.500
green: y < 0.150 + 0.640x
green: y < 0.440
purple: y > 0.050 + 0.750x
red: y > 0.382

6.2.1 The passing beam must produce a sufficiently sharp "cut-off" to permit a satisfactory adjustment with it's aid. The "cut-off" must be a horizontal straight line on the side opposite to the direction of traffic for which the headlamp is intended: on the other side .....(it can't be too high or low)...... A cut-off extending above a combination of these lines shall in no circumstances be permitted.

6.2.2.1 .....in the case of headlamps designed to meet the requirements of left-hand traffic, the "cut-off" on the right-half of the screen is horizontal.....
So dazzle and light spill above the horizontal (slightly higher on the passenger side) is a no go.

(If anyone can convert those trichromatic coordinates to a more 'real world' figure, I love you long time....)

Quote
6.2.5 Only one gas-discharge light source is permitted for each passing beam headlamp.
So no doubling up of HID globes in your headlights. Levelling is taken care of in ADR 13 above. ('aint the labrynth of ADR's wonderful??)



And ADR 78 basically goes into the specifics of globe design, specifics on the arc discharge (shape, photometrics etc) but I wouldn't worry too much about that, as long as you dont have blue or purple HID's.