Mark 5 Polo 1.2 TSI ECU remap

[imprompt]

I know that it's not due in Australia till next year, but I did some dedicated google searching and could not find any tuning options for the new Polo 1.2 turbo, which is rated as 77Kw stock.

Looked at German / UK websites but found nothing, can anyone spot any info? Does anyone have any idea what the power/torque could be increased too?

[Corey_R]

Well... I think it's a bit early at this point - the car still isn't available in most places.

I don't think you'll see anything from APR on this one (at least not for a while) as they're primarily USA based and I'm not aware of any USA bound cars which will carry this engine. I checked the Oettinger german site, and they also don't have any information on the Polo Mk5. But then, they only added the Mk6 Golf GTI just over a month ago, so....

[fintelboss]

I dont know who will be the first with a new one size fits all map, but i can guess at the results...

Lukily the rated power of 77 kW is achieved with only 150 Nm when the rated torque is 175 Nm... so there is plenty of room for improvement

I believe it is safe to increase torque by 10 to 20% for a modern FWD car without any damage to the driveline. So i would be aiming for 200 Nm, which at 5000 rpm gives 105 kW, but i think that could be beyond the limit of the standard turbo as its already pushing 23.2 psi.

Keeping the standard turbo, but upgrading intake and exhaust, I would expect 200 Nm from 2000 to 4000 and 175 Nm at 5000, a peak of 90 kW.

Comments?

[imprompt]

ABT seem to have a remap out -

http://www.automobilesreview.com/auto-news/abt-polo/17993/

They quote from 77kw to 96kw, can't see a torque figure though.

[Corey_R]

I believe it is safe to increase torque by 10 to 20% for a modern FWD car without any damage to the driveline. So i would be aiming for 200 Nm, which at 5000 rpm gives 105 kW, but i think that could be beyond the limit of the standard turbo as its already pushing 23.2 psi.

My comment would be where did you pull those 10 to 20% figures from?
Current Polo GTI, 220NM.
APR Stage I ECU - 328NM - 49% increase.

Current Golf GTI, 280NM
APR Stage I ECU - 402NM - 43%
APR Stage III Kit - 521NM - 86%

I could go through the entire VW line and show this - and will probably have trouble finding any VW upgrade which only gives a 10 to 20% upgrade (apart from the older NA cars).

[fintelboss]

The ABT with 96kW looks very encouraging! perhaps the standard exhaust is not the limiting factor. I am curious how much the boost was increased by though...

my 10 to 20 % was based on maintaining factory durability to all components for an expected 10 year life span. 30 to 40% would likely last 3-5 years no worries.

VW dont go making their gearboxes twice as strong as required - that is a massive waste of money. perhaps they have a safety factor of 1.5? shown by the fact that a lot of cars are tuned to give 50% increase as you said. but 86% is just asking for trouble.

Like i said, 10-20% more torque is well within the limits of a FWD gearbox and i believe it is perfectly safe for 10 years. - if it was a rwd nissan or toyota box then sure, double away!

[h100vw]

If there is enough people looking for a tune, Custom-Code will bring one out in time. Development isn't always a fast process though.
Gavin

[Buller_Scott]

hey gavin do you know if custom code might be intending to address the 1.6tdi 77kw version with a tune at all? or perhaps a dpf delete tune? lol.

but back to imprompt= its still WAY too early days yet.

even people in seth africa are apparently not ordering them yet as vw havent released the full range of options yet. by the time the polo is up and running, there'll be lots and lots and lots to choose from: apr, oettinger, revo technik, custom code, giac, superchips, chippeduk, evolve-technik, etc etc etc......

[Corey_R]

The ABT with 96kW looks very encouraging! perhaps the standard exhaust is not the limiting factor. I am curious how much the boost was increased by though...

my 10 to 20 % was based on maintaining factory durability to all components for an expected 10 year life span. 30 to 40% would likely last 3-5 years no worries.

VW dont go making their gearboxes twice as strong as required - that is a massive waste of money. perhaps they have a safety factor of 1.5? shown by the fact that a lot of cars are tuned to give 50% increase as you said. but 86% is just asking for trouble.

Like i said, 10-20% more torque is well within the limits of a FWD gearbox and i believe it is perfectly safe for 10 years. - if it was a rwd nissan or toyota box then sure, double away!

Sorry - I don't really know you or what your experience is with VW or other cars, as you're very new here and all - but there is definitely more than 20% in the VW cars. There are 10 year old VW and Audi cars which ahve been running around with Stage I ECU's....

But as you said, you've just made up this 10 to 20% figure based on your beliefs. ANd this is fine - just make sure you point out that it is your belief and not some fact.

Because it IS fact that there are many VW and Audi's running way more than 20%, in fact more than 40%, and many of them have been around for a long time now

[Corey_R]

VW dont go making their gearboxes twice as strong as required - that is a massive waste of money. perhaps they have a safety factor of 1.5? shown by the fact that a lot of cars are tuned to give 50% increase as you said. but 86% is just asking for trouble.

Oh, and specifically to that. There are DSG gearboxes running around with over 100% more torque. If you are sensible about your initial acceleration from standstill, they run fine. If you need to abuse them on initial take off, you need to replace the wet-clutches (not a cheap option mind you). Then they run flawlessly. No other modifications other than upgraded clutch required.

Same thing for Polo GTI with the manual - people are running well over 100% more with simply changing the clutch.

Same thing with the VW Scirocco 24 hour race cars. Standard 6sp DSG gearbox, and they've all finished multiple 24 hour races.

There are so many examples I don't think there is any more point in this....
10 to 20% might apply to other brands, Korean and Japanese maybe, but not to the VAG cars!

[h100vw]

hey gavin do you know if custom code might be intending to address the 1.6tdi 77kw version with a tune at all? or perhaps a dpf delete tune? lol..

It'll all happen in time. Just consider where you would spend your time, fixing up a handful of diesel Polos or where the big money is in GTIs?

I am not saying there isn't money to be made in the small diesels but as a portion of the market it would figure quite a bit less.

DPF delete is another thing on top of that. They are individually tuned like a Phase 3 and there's only 2 people at Custom-Code that do them. I have to let them know in advance I need them or it doesn't happen.

Gavin

[fintelboss]

Wow, it looks like ABT have UPGRADED their tune for the 1.2 tsi! or did i just miss it?

It was 96 Kw (Nice, small and a true sportsman on 14th September 2009) but now its at 103 kW (4500 to 5500 rpm), and 220 Nm (2600 to 3800 rpm)

The new data sheet is here: http://www.abt-sportsline.de/uploads..._DSG_E_190.pdf dated 8th February 2010.

They also state that the 0-100 km/h time is 8.8 seconds, almost on par with a stock GTI!

[Corey_R]

Except the stock GTI in the MK5 Polo will do 0 to 100 in 6.9 seconds

[fintelboss]

haha, ive no doubt the new gti will be quick, but i do think the tsi will win the fun/$ debate - Cheaper to buy, Cheaper to insure, easy to modify.

When is the last time that a bottom of the range car, in the middle specification model promised to be so good? This is affordable performance for the masses, with a large scope for enhancement.

[Corey_R]

Yeah - it should be good I guess. I don't know - I didn't find the old stock Polo GTI that exciting... until I got the Stage I ECU