Passat 2.0TDI 125KW - Can this be Chipped / Tuned?

[R36]

Custom Code does a DPF delete and tune that takes power from 125kw to 170-180kw and 450(ish)nm

that'll THRASH a V6, everytime

and its only about 2-2.5 all up!!! Thats what the Oettinger tune will cost you

There may be a few potential problems..

• isn't removing a DPF illegal? (roadworthy and insurance issues?)
• 450Nm is a lot of torque for the Passats DSG (reliability and warranty issues?)
• too much power and torque via only the front wheels? = torque steer and wheelspin rather than pure performance?

[team_v]

There may be a few potential problems..

• isn't removing a DPF illegal? (roadworthy and insurance issues?)
• 450Nm is a lot of torque for the Passats DSG (reliability and warranty issues?)
• too much power and torque via only the front wheels? = torque steer and wheelspin rather than pure performance?

From memory removing the DPF isn't illegal, it just means the car does not comply with Euro regulations on emissions for the sale of new cars.
Removing a DPF will almost certainly not be recognised by anyone in the regulatory trade so they probably won't even know it has been done.
Also they are less likely to pull over a tdi passat for a check than a hotted up riceline.

The DSG can handle a lot more than it is rated at.
VW are just using a low rating system to protect themsleves incase any lawsuits may come up.
There must be a safety margin built into their reccomended limit.

I think most TDI owners are going to go a bit easy on their ride, rather than flooring it and using it for trackdays.
If you drive in a spirrited fashion, there shouldn't be any problems.
It's only if you fang it hard all the time that you will notice a problem.

[GoLfMan]

There may be a few potential problems..

• isn't removing a DPF illegal? (roadworthy and insurance issues?)
• 450Nm is a lot of torque for the Passats DSG (reliability and warranty issues?)
• too much power and torque via only the front wheels? = torque steer and wheelspin rather than pure performance?

DPF delete is not illegal (that i know of), unlike removing you Cat.

Custom Code will do a tune so suit your car so it lasts

Yes to both of those if you were a ham fisted idiot Diesel's are very linear in how they deliver their power. But I dare say there will be more wheelspin than a stock car

[Rocket36]

The DSG can handle a lot more than it is rated at.
VW are just using a low rating system to protect themsleves incase any lawsuits may come up.
There must be a safety margin built into their reccomended limit.

Where is that documented by VW? Because unless it is, it's still speculation...

[syelaw]

Interesting, what age??? Up to 2009 mostly serial, but 2010 will need CDM which was formally known as BDM. Check out www.superchips.co.uk the Aus site should be active by the end of the month.
Good luck
Jmac

Thanks, this looks really good.

http://www.superchips.co.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&task=searchcat&Itemid=134

interesting that the chipped 2.0T Passat goes up to 238HP, or 177KW. thats almost the same as the V6.

[team_v]

Where is that documented by VW? Because unless it is, it's still speculation...

It isn't documented by VW, it would defy the point of rating the gearbox so low if they tell you how much it can actually handle.

How many DSG's have blown up after a chip putting them over the limit?
why would a tuning company build software that pushes you over the limit if the car is not able to handle it?

VW and almost every other manufacturing company put limits quite a lot below the tollerance level of their products to inhibit lawsuits that could occur.
It also allows for varying levels of external forces such as temperature and driving style.

[Rocket36]

VW and almost every other manufacturing company put limits quite a lot below the tollerance level of their products to inhibit lawsuits that could

OK let me re-phrase... How do you know that unless it's documented somewhere by VW (or any manufacturer)? It's fine for 3rd parties to say that or speculate but unless it's specified by the manufacturers that it's the case, then you cannot be sure it is the case. I'm interested to know how you know almost every manufacturer does that with their products, and the reasons they do that - i.e you say it's for legal reasons. Who from the manufacturers told you? How do you know? If I get Evolve to improve the performance of my car it will increase the torque output which is why I'm interested. Thanks.

[team_v]

OK let me re-phrase... How do you know that unless it's documented somewhere by VW (or any manufacturer)? It's fine for 3rd parties to say that or speculate but unless it's specified by the manufacturers that it's the case, then you cannot be sure it is the case. I'm interested to know how you know almost every manufacturer does that with their products, and the reasons they do that - i.e you say it's for legal reasons. Who from the manufacturers told you? How do you know? If I get Evolve to improve the performance of my car it will increase the torque output which is why I'm interested. Thanks.

All of the manufacturers who supplied us with equipment for the QLD water storage grid always told us that their equipment was "officially rated" at a level far below what was tested to stop litigation (i.e. can perform at levels far above what is given as the limit)
It stems from the varying levels of stress that may act on a piece of equipment at any one time.
Most of our equipment used for the water grid was capable for another 50% on top of quoted guidelines according to the manufacturers.

We had the same issue at QUT where we were told that the tollerance of the equipment we were provided was far above the quoted levels to allow use of the quipment up to and over the "safe" levels if required.

This is just what i have been told by a variety (almost all) manufacturers we have dealt with through my career.
This has been from the head of manufacturing through to engineers who worked ont eh stress levels or the equipment.
The best bet it to see if someone else has had anything similar done and ask if they have had any problems.
That is half the reason i waited to get the Tiguan, to see if any issues arose but they have been out for 2 years so far and nothing apart from a few gremlins so i caved and signed the contract.

Your best bet would be to get in contact with someone at VW and find out just how much the DSG could handle or contact evolve and see if they have any customers who have had it done and if they have had any issues.

Or get a manual gearbox

[Rocket36]

But you made this statement...

"VW and almost every other manufacturing company put limits quite a lot below the tollerance level of their products to inhibit lawsuits that could occur."

And I just want to know how you know that about VW. Or if it's an assumption you're making based on your experience in a completely different industry.

Cheers mate!

I agree with everything else you've said and I will definitely be talking to Evolve before I do anything.

[team_v]

But you made this statement...

"VW and almost every other manufacturing company put limits quite a lot below the tollerance level of their products to inhibit lawsuits that could occur."

And I just want to know how you know that about VW.

The DSG box has been tested by a number of tuning companies and even when operating over the torque limit, there has been no real issue.
Have a read through these 3 threads as it may ease your mind and explain how the engine and dsg handle the extra torque load.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=19437

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2774349&postcount=7

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=1903125

If you are really worried, you could just get them to dumb the torque down to a level just below what the DSG box was rated at

[Guy_H]

The torque "manager" in the engine ensures that the torque is transmitted as the gearbox requires / can handle it.

The DSG boxes handle a lot more torque than some of the "figures" that get thrown around. I think what most people miss is that the torque load figure is a "sudden load" limit (ie, transmitting 0 - 250nm instantly - like a shock load or launch), not what can be transmitted when rolling (and 550nm on the 6 speed DSG is not an issue). I'm pretty sure the clutch holding force specs are well in excess of 500nm's. Oh, the engine management wont allow you to shock load the DSG

[Rocket36]

The DSG box has been tested by a number of tuning companies and even when operating over the torque limit, there has been no real issue.
Have a read through these 3 threads as it may ease your mind and explain how the engine and dsg handle the extra torque load.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=19437

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2774349&postcount=7

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=1903125

If you are really worried, you could just get them to dumb the torque down to a level just below what the DSG box was rated at

Thanks for all that - all very good reading... But like I have been saying, none of that is from VW. And you stated that "VW and almost every other manufacturing company put limits quite a lot below the tollerance level of their products to inhibit lawsuits that could occur" and I'd really like to know how you know that. That'd be really handy.

Cheers!

[team_v]

Thanks for all that - all very good reading... But like I have been saying, none of that is from VW. And you stated that "VW and almost every other manufacturing company put limits quite a lot below the tollerance level of their products to inhibit lawsuits that could occur" and I'd really like to know how you know that. That'd be really handy.

Cheers!

I thought it was obvious.

They place the limit below the useable level to cover their ass.
Why else would they do it, they are a company which could be held liable after all.
Apart from what i have already procvided i have no hard evidence directly from VW saying their DSG box is tested at a higher level.
Sorry if you were expecting that from my previous comments.

You could ask VWAus if they have any figures on testing for the DSG box but i doubt you will even hear back from them.



I don't have any hard evidence specifically stating that VW rates their DSG box lower than it is capable of but Guy has worked on them and the other threads i linked to have shown enough soft evidence for me to believe it.

Plus it is comparable to all of the other manufacturer's that i have previously spoken about which allows me to base my educated guess on the fact that VW would do it too.



I don't really know what else i can tell you.
I thought it was standard across the board to understate everything you have to inhibit potential lawsuits.

[Guy_H]

The old pictures are gone (or I cant find them) or VW Racing testing the 100% stock DSG with over 450nm of torque in a constant shift / load / heat stress test for more than 24 hours (on an engine / gearbox dyno) before they used them to claim first & second place in the Nurburgring 24 hour race in 2008.

Now that was VW racing, Official Volkswagen? who knows, and of course, that testing is not on any of their brochures notr the torque figures!

The old thread was here:

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=16168

[V6Passat]

Thanks for all that - all very good reading... But like I have been saying, none of that is from VW. And you stated that "VW and almost every other manufacturing company put limits quite a lot below the tollerance level of their products to inhibit lawsuits that could occur" and I'd really like to know how you know that. That'd be really handy.

Cheers!

OR you could buy the Toureg R50...that has 400 odd Nm and no issue with chips, warranty, specs etc!!!