Tiguan Stage III anyone?

[s4mmie]

Starting to look at our next car upgrade and I've always liked the Tiguan
The Polos always been fun but I never intended keeping it long term (can't see it handling the dog and kids in the future too well ) My GTIs spec'd as my signature and I don't want to go backwards in performance with our next car.

I'm looking at 2010/11 DSG Tiggys. Looking at the APR upgrades, there's the usual K04 conversions and a stage III option. The K04 kit looks to be the basic turbo upgrade and software for $4400. Stage III comes with an intercooler and intake for $8295.
Has anyone had any experience with either of these upgrades or taken their own routes? I want a nice definite shove in the back when you give it some stick, which I still feel the Polo lacks. Is this kind of expectation realistic? APRs Stage III shows 400hp and 500Nm+ torque. I might sound a bit naive but I can't say I know how those figures would translate to how it feels on the road. If anyone's owns or had a chance to be in a 2.0TSI with those kind of power levels feel free to comment I'm curious on the characteristics of the engine, I know you can't directly compare a 2.0TSI making that power to a V8 making the same power (which i like the feeling of!)

[team_v]

I have stage 2 and that is as far as I am going power wise.

I know a couple of guys on vortex have gone the KO4 route but one is having a few issues with bits of the car wearing out sooner.
The 6MT would need a cluth upgrade as well to handle the extra power and torque.

To be honest, you would be better off buying a second hand porsche if you are chasing that much output as Stage 2 does the job well enough for the 99.9% of the time.

You can see what mine is like if you rock up to some of our events.

[s4mmie]

Nice work. I read through your thread a while ago but cant remember all the details. Stage 2, is that chip intake and exhaust still running the standard turbo? Yeah, I'd love to come along one day and check it out. From what I've read, the 7-spd DSG in the Tig is the same DQ500(?) in the TTRS rated for 600Nm so the gearbox could handle stage III, but I've been wondering about the rest of the system handling it as you mentioned.

The only thing that's bothering me is the Stage III comes with intake and intercooler for close on $8300. The K04 conversion i $4400 without an intercooler or intake, add the carbonio and intercooler and your looking at ~$7200. For an extra $1000 you get another 100hp... I guess that's what my whole thread is about really, how much power is enough (and worth the dollars)? I know thats like how long is a peice of string...

I think a K04 would give a similar power to weight ratio of a VE SS off the top of my head... I could live with that. Again, I know it comes down to what youre happy with, but experienced opinions help!

[team_v]

To be honest, anything over 250kw for day-to-day purposes is going to be too much i think.
Stage 2 is ECU remap and downpipe (i think you can still run the stock air intake).
I have done the air intake and rear muffler delete so it goes a little better and sounds a bit meatier.

You are welcome to give it a whirl at the euro meet or come along to happy laps and see how it performs against it's bretheren.
Spent the last happy laps toying with the Focus RS owners.

The DSG in the Tig is the stronger one (not sure if it's the same as the TTRS) and it would make better use of the power from a ko4/stage 3 than the 6MT but i would be worried about what strain that much power is going top put on parts of the car and if you are upgrading the power output you should look at brake updates as well etc.



In my opionion, Stage 2 + suspension work (swaybar+coils/springs) would be more than enough for anyone's daily needs.
Stage 3 would be if you want to race it competitively imho as the cost pushes it up a lot and you have to consider wear and tear occuring quicker.

[tigger73]

I agree with team_v. I think stage 3 is a bit much - although technically it's possible and maybe somewhat appealing on paper. I do think that you'll create other problems which means you'll then have to start upgrading a lot of other parts as they break/wear out. You'd be a lot better off starting with a beefier drivetrain in the first place.

And then comes to the question of what do you do with the car afterwards? Do you strip it back and sell it as stock or do you leave it with all the bits on with any potential new owner knowing that the car has (potentially) seen some hard work.

Though I think that a Stage 1 Tig is potentially no worse than a car with a towbar.... but stage 3 has to have been run around a track a few times at least.

[99Reza]

I'll be the oddball here. I'll say go for Stage 3. When I have the money, this is the route I will be going for. Having said that, I'll prepare at least twice the amount of the stage 3 cost for further upgrade in the car.

The level of dynamic provided by the stg 3 on daily basis will be ridiculously irresistible. Especially in Tiguan form...

[Sharkie]

Nice work. I read through your thread a while ago but cant remember all the details. Stage 2, is that chip intake and exhaust still running the standard turbo? Yeah, I'd love to come along one day and check it out. From what I've read, the 7-spd DSG in the Tig is the same DQ500(?) in the TTRS rated for 600Nm so the gearbox could handle stage III, but I've been wondering about the rest of the system handling it as you mentioned.

The only thing that's bothering me is the Stage III comes with intake and intercooler for close on $8300. The K04 conversion i $4400 without an intercooler or intake, add the carbonio and intercooler and your looking at ~$7200. For an extra $1000 you get another 100hp... I guess that's what my whole thread is about really, how much power is enough (and worth the dollars)? I know thats like how long is a peice of string...

I think a K04 would give a similar power to weight ratio of a VE SS off the top of my head... I could live with that. Again, I know it comes down to what youre happy with, but experienced opinions help!

Having owned the 1st Stg2 Tiguan (205-210kw) in the world as well as a Stg2 Polo GTI, I can provide the following comments:

• In a 6MT (manual) the gear rations in 1st and 2nd is too short to really do the power justice. (Golf R 6MT has a similar problem)
• 0-100km/h a Stg2 Tiguan is quicker than a Stg2 Polo GTI ..... though the Stg2 Polo GTI is quicker 100-200km/h .....
• The clutch on the Tiguan WILL need to be upgrade to handle more power than Stg2. Even on Stg1 there is a end of life on it....
• K04 is very expensive if you don't have any of the bits already accumulated.
• I figured going from Stg2 to Stg3 would have required me to spend $10K, including FMIC, K04, clutch and brakes.
• DSG would be better for Stg3, but it will be very expensive to fix WHEN (not if) it breaks.
• I figure a current S3 sportback would be better. More tuneable and without the Golf R (and Tiguans) short 1st and 2nd gears. ECU alone will give you 240kw. 2009 S3 will set you back same as a Tiguan as well!

Cheers

[team_v]

I'll be the oddball here. I'll say go for Stage 3. When I have the money, this is the route I will be going for. Having said that, I'll prepare at least twice the amount of the stage 3 cost for further upgrade in the car.

The level of dynamic provided by the stg 3 on daily basis will be ridiculously irresistible. Especially in Tiguan form...

I do see your point and i have entertained the idea as I'm at Stage 2 already.
The problem I have is that when you tally it all up, would it not have been better to just upgrade to a more capable car in the first place and not have to worry about what will break on the car when you drive it.


In my opinion, Stage 2 + suspension work and sticky tyres will prove more than enough for anyone's needs.

[99Reza]

That is true, but where's the fun in that . Although, one shouldn't get emotionally attach to a car. As per Sharkie, S3 is a more capable car, I'll definitely go with that option unless you really love the Tiguan.

[s4mmie]

@Sharkie
Brilliant info and good to hear a direct comparison. Funny you mention the S3, this has been my other option along with the Tig for a while. I still have an S3 motivational wallpaper on my laptop Pros for the Tig is I think it will be a better family car as I don't plan on upgrading for a long time.

Currently if I go the Tig route I'm thinking Stage I/K04 conversion, Carbonio, S3 FMIC and a Goodspeed downpipe and exhaust.
I can always fit up the intake and exhaust mods and go for a trial of the Stage I software and see if that floats my boat. If not, whack on the K04.

Everyone seems to confirm my concerns ; Stage III looks like its going to put too much strain on the drivetrain. Stage I/K04 seems to be the go for a little bit more poke.

[fung9420]

Stage 3 would be very interesting car. imagine a Tiguan to race with a Cayenne turbo(does it spell this way?)

Get the 125TSI
Stage 1
Intake
S3 Front mount

Still not enough??
My dream... probably never gonna happen
Exhaust
K04
ECU
Suspensions
Sticky tyres

By the time u having fun with stage 1,
keep looking for someone selling/parting out the K04 kit.
I had seen someone selling K04 kit off Golf R a while ago for a good price.

I would say YES to go K04/stage 3. K04 should be pretty safe for the drivingtrain since they built for it.
Stage 3? probably u will need to spend fair a bit for maintenance.
Make it for a long project which keeps u the passion to keep the same car for longer period.

Cheers

[s4mmie]

Forgot to ask Sharkie, which did you prefer driving?

[Sharkie]

Forgot to ask Sharkie, which did you prefer driving?

I believe the Tiguan, is the best small SUV (except the just released new X1 maybe) on the market today. It is roomy, well appointed and goes well if you get the TSI. Take the TSI Tigs to Stg2 and like I did add suspension and wheels it becomes a genuinely sporty SUV that can keep up with some seriously fast cars. In tight corners its AWD traction is great and off the line it has none of the FWD issues the GTIs (Golf and Polos) have.

You do feel the weight though and the boot is too small for anything but a small family. As a package it is great however.

It is not as much fun to drive as a GTI though. Hence the reason, once I sorted out a real family car in the Multivan, I bought my GTI back .....

[Transporter]

I take the Q5 V6 TDI any day. It would be a monster with motorsport tune and some extra bits.

[team_v]

I take the Q5 V6 TDI any day. It would be a monster with motorsport tune and some extra bits.

I like the 3.0 TTDI they have overseas but it would cost a fortune here, easily in the 80k range.

I really enjoy driving my Tig and from Happy Laps it has proven it can keep up with the more sports oriented cars.
Feel free to ask for a test drive at a euro meet or come out to Happy Laps to see how it performs.