Plans for suspension upgrades.

[203132]

Hey guys/girls,

I have a Superchip TSI 2009 Tiguan and I want to do some suspension upgrades. At the moment I plan for some H&R lowering springs or KW springs but no plans for rims any time soon.
I'm new to the modding scene/car scene and my question is, what do alloy wheel spacers do? Description says wider track and by the name i'm assuming the wheels will be getting further apart from each other.
So in combination with my future spring how will this effect my handling?
What risks are there to standard parts?
If it is a go, how wide a wheel spacer should I get?

So many questions haha...
Thanks

[kaanage]

Wheel spacers increase your offset to allow for more backspacing so the inside edge of the tyre doesn't hit things in the wheel well. They are illegal so you should look fo wheels with more offset instead if going wider than stock.
The wider track will increase grip a bit but can have advese effects on steering. They should help recover the griip lost with the lowering springs but will not fix the damping mismatch.

[Pullstarter]

Be very careful with spacers, whilst perfectly safe when using the well made ones, as said above they are illegal and will more than likely void your insurance.

The minimal drop provided by H&Rs wont effect the longevity of the shocks only being a 30mm-ish drop. Hardly a mismatch. Having said that though you can't beat coilovers for adjustablility and the handling improvement they provide.

Kaanage, since when does lowered springs = less grip? I think you'll find it actually increases grip by lowering the centre of gravity. It's only when you go fooloshly low and have compressed the shocks beyond their working capacity that you ruin the cars handling.

[kaanage]

Lowering springs have a higher spring rate than stock to prevent bottoming out.

This means the damping will be less than optimal and the wheels won't be as well controlled and oscillate more. This and the increased roll stiffness will reduce mechanical grip. This will more than negate any increase in grip from the slightly lower center of gravity.

The increased movement cycles of the dampers (due to the previously mentioned oscillation increase) will work the dampers harder along with the increased speed of the movement (due to the higher spring rate) so they will wear more quickly.

Many people think that the faster steering response from greater roll stiffness improves handling hence the preoccupation with lowering springs and stiffer antiroll bars but it is only part of the equation.

Note that the increased leverage provided by spacers or increased offset will reduce the stiffness of the suspension a bit which also adds to the grip provided by the pure track increase.

See the following for some basics on how stiffness affects suspension (and lots of other good info)

http://www.rapid-racer.com/suspension-tuning.php

[Pullstarter]

If that's the case why do race cars have massively stiff suspension and run as low as possible?

[kaanage]

Because they have the tyres and suspension geometry that require it - loads of grip (plus downforce from wings/underbody) that would bottom the suspension when cornering at maximum speed.

I'm not being smart - I crashed my supersports racer 3 times before accepting this fact.

Read the page I linked to - race cars run the SOFTEST suspension that they can get away with. Pure race cars with open diffs run with ZERO rear roll stiffness when they can for maximum traction out of turns.

[203132]

Interesting read kaanage, I may have to do some more research on coilovers through this forum though because they are quite a huge investment for daily driving and a bit of joy rides. Won't get the spacers, probably just get better rims and tyres instead to avoid any future risks.

So the thing is:
I have a Tiguan, it has a high COG and LOTS of body movement.
(one time I had a close call that involved me braking hard at 100 on a freeway and swerving. The car swayed a lot at the back like a pendulum...bloody scary)
But yet Sydney area has one of the worst roads in the world (haha).

Looks like I should get sway bars and anti lift kits before anything else?

Front Sway Bar
BWF20XZ Swaybar 24mm-X H/D Adjustable

Rear Sway Bar
BWR21XZ Swaybar-X h/duty Blade adjusta
BWR21Z Swaybar 22mm-H/D Adjustable

[kaanage]

I'd get coilovers or a cup kit (springs + dampers) before anything else.
My Polo was roly poly and understeered when stock but still had loads of grip. With a cup kit it is much more responsive and I don't feel there is any need for a rear anti-roll bar - I use semi-slicks on the track to regain any grip loss (and add more).

The loss of grip won't be huge but I'm just pointing it out since a lot of people think stiffening = better performance all around

[203132]

So i'm assuming you are using your polo as an example because Tiguan is usually front wheel drive and there is no need to start off with a rear sway bar or none at all for that matter?
MRT says to go for the rear one first then front or just go both at the same time but then again a Tigaun isn't a WRX. But it is a 4WD in a sense. Curious.

[Tigga1]

So i'm assuming you are using your polo as an example because Tiguan is usually front wheel drive and there is no need to start off with a rear sway bar or none at all for that matter?
MRT says to go for the rear one first then front or just go both at the same time but then again a Tigaun isn't a WRX. But it is a 4WD in a sense. Curious.

I've got H/D adjustable rear sway bar on middle setting, and a anti lift kit up front, riding on after market 18" with ET35. I'm pretty happy with it all as it doesn't sacrifice too much ride comfort and height, but handles a lot better on daily drive up and down range. The ALK made a huge difference in turn in, which I had no idea about but was recommended by sway bar seller...
good luck with it.
and roads are pretty crappy here too...

[Pullstarter]

Whick ALK Tigga?

[clip]

Many people think that the faster steering response from greater roll stiffness improves handling hence the preoccupation with lowering springs and stiffer antiroll bars but it is only part of the equation.

Yes, I agree a lot. You want your suspension to work, it what keeps the tyres on our crappy roads. If you stiffen it up too much with springs and especially big sway bars, you can reduce this from happening. If you really want it to stick like s*^t to a bear, remove the sway bar- it might roll around and scrape the sills, but it'll stick. Pumping up the rear sway bar too much can also increase tendencay for snap oversteer, particualry if you tend to drive hard out of corners (level/risk depending on chassis stiffness and your ability to drive too ) - just something else to think about.

[kaanage]

I've got H/D adjustable rear sway bar on middle setting, and a anti lift kit up front, riding on after market 18" with ET35. I'm pretty happy with it all as it doesn't sacrifice too much ride comfort and height, but handles a lot better on daily drive up and down range. The ALK made a huge difference in turn in, which I had no idea about but was recommended by sway bar seller...
good luck with it.
and roads are pretty crappy here too...

Not a bad setup if the Tig understeers a lot in stock set up - the ALK actually softens the front end by reducing the amount of anti-dive/lift built in to the car so that it is more compliant when accelerating or braking. This increases the available grip, reducing understeer while the rear anti-roll bar reduces the rear grip, again reducing understeer. It's all about balance.
Did you get a heavier front anti-roll bar with the ALK? They usually install them together to make the front more responsive without loosing grip.

Pumping up the rear sway bar too much can also increase tendencay for snap oversteer, particualry if you tend to drive hard out of corners (level/risk depending on chassis stiffness and your ability to drive too ) - just something else to think about.

Especially when you TRY to drive it hard through a turn and then realise you've overcommitted and need to back off. Life can get quite exciting then, if you live through the experience

[203132]

ALK sounds sweet, anybody recommend a brand or where to get them?
Found these on ebay...they look pretty sweet. Whiteline and being sold by a power seller.

VW Tiguan PQ35 07-On wagon awd Anti-lift/caster kit - F | eBay

[aussietig]

ALK sounds sweet, anybody recommend a brand or where to get them?
Found these on ebay...they look pretty sweet. Whiteline and being sold by a power seller.

VW Tiguan PQ35 07-On wagon awd Anti-lift/caster kit - F | eBay

Yes ... that's the one and only AFAIK.

The price offered is also lower than RRP and free shipping.

So it's a no brainer!