Tiguan vs GTI?

[Trogdor]

Hi all,

I've got a 2008 MY09 Golf GTI. Its a great little car, and the lease is running out later on this year.

I'm tossing up between keeping it, or selling it and buying a new Tiguan (as I'd like to be able to tow a smallish c. 1000kg boat and trailer with it). My questions:

• My research leads me to understand that the motor in the Tiguan 125 and 147 is identical, can anybody confirm
• More importantly, if I buy the APR chip upgrade for a 125 Tiguan, how would it drive compared to my GTI? I'll obviously go and test drive the Tiguan to see if the chasis dynamics are acceptable, but in terms of acceleration - how would a chipped Tiguan compare to the GTI? Would it beat it? It seems to be 270kg heavier, but would be 189kw / 402 nm vs 147kw / 280nm
• With the new 7 speed DSG - could this handle the ECU upgrade as easily as the 6-speed DSG without failing?

It seems the 125 Tiguan with the comfort pack (or whatever its called, with the auto lights and wipers) and a ECU chip is amazing value, just would like to understand how it stacks up against the GTI power / acceleration wise - as would like a SUV body, AWD and a tow bar, but nothing slower than a GTI. Thank you all in advance!!

[Sharkie]

Hi all,

I've got a 2008 MY09 Golf GTI. Its a great little car, and the lease is running out later on this year.

I'm tossing up between keeping it, or selling it and buying a new Tiguan (as I'd like to be able to tow a smallish c. 1000kg boat and trailer with it). My questions:

• My research leads me to understand that the motor in the Tiguan 125 and 147 is identical, can anybody confirm
• More importantly, if I buy the APR chip upgrade for a 125 Tiguan, how would it drive compared to my GTI? I'll obviously go and test drive the Tiguan to see if the chasis dynamics are acceptable, but in terms of acceleration - how would a chipped Tiguan compare to the GTI? Would it beat it? It seems to be 270kg heavier, but would be 189kw / 402 nm vs 147kw / 280nm
• With the new 7 speed DSG - could this handle the ECU upgrade as easily as the 6-speed DSG without failing?

It seems the 125 Tiguan with the comfort pack (or whatever its called, with the auto lights and wipers) and a ECU chip is amazing value, just would like to understand how it stacks up against the GTI power / acceleration wise - as would like a SUV body, AWD and a tow bar, but nothing slower than a GTI. Thank you all in advance!!

These threads almost always ends in tears ..... mostly because the Golf drivers have little understanding of what the Tiguans are capable of ..... and gets upset, shows their ignorance and insults somebody .... .... but anyway here is my perception of it and I have driven the GTI's quite extensively as well ....

1. MK6 GTI (not the MY09 MK5) and all the TSI Tiguans have the same engines. 125 and 147 and 155 TSI's are identical, only the factory ECU programming differs.

2. A 190kw/400NM Tiguan is much quicker than a stock GTI and in fact pretty much identical to a 190kw/400NM GTI ......

3. Where the AWD adds weight, it also adds traction ..... so the extra 250kgs are offset by the traction advantage of AWD over FWD.

4. Provided you sort out the suspension out on the Tig and add sticky rubber they will be relatively close in the handling stakes .... Tig superior in the really tight stuff where the AWD assists, GTI superior in the more flowing corners where grip not traction is more important.

5. The Tig's 7spd DSG is far superior to the old 6sp DSG. It is the latest version of the DSG and can handle 550NM. Do not confuse it with the 7spd DSG in the Golfs that can handle only 250NM. They are entirely differnt gearboxes.

So from my own experiences .... even a Stg 2 GTI cannot pull away from my Tiguan from point A to B ..... in the tighter stuff the Tig has to be held in to prevent it from running over the GTI, in the longer swooping bits, the Tig's extra weight and higher centre of gravity slows it down a little bit. As the ultimate Q-car the Tig is unbeatable. It is so much faster than what it looks and what people expect.

As I've said before, unless you've actually driven a 190+kw Tiguan, you cannot actually make a comparison ..... whereas I've driven GTI's from stock all the way to Stg 3 ....

[Transporter]

...and from my own experience Sharkie is the most reliable source that can give you the right answer and I can only confirm that the Tiguan handling is out of this world, which you will notice when testdriving it. Those who go to track days on rainy days would know that there is no competition between GTI and the Tig in wet conditions, it's a game over for GTI.

[Trogdor]

Thanks guys, really appreciate that. Sounds like the Tiguan is a great car. I love my Golf but sometimes its a bit too small / unpractical, especially for the towing.

Is there any difference between the suspension on a Tiguan 125 and Tiguan 147?

Aside from "cosmetics" and internal comforts, I'm trying to figure out if there are any mechanical differences (except for the ECU of course) between the models.

[Trogdor]

4. Provided you sort out the suspension out on the Tig and add sticky rubber they will be relatively close in the handling stakes .... Tig superior in the really tight stuff where the AWD assists, GTI superior in the more flowing corners where grip not traction is more important.

Sorry for what is probably a dumb question - what do you mean by "sort the suspension out", can it by done by factory options or needs to be aftermarket, and rough cost?

[Sharkie]

Thanks guys, really appreciate that. Sounds like the Tiguan is a great car. I love my Golf but sometimes its a bit too small / unpractical, especially for the towing.

Is there any difference between the suspension on a Tiguan 125 and Tiguan 147?

Aside from "cosmetics" and internal comforts, I'm trying to figure out if there are any mechanical differences (except for the ECU of course) between the models.

Apart from the cosmetics (and the ECU), there is no (as in zero) mechanical difference between the 125 and the 147. Suspension is the same.

Sorry for what is probably a dumb question - what do you mean by "sort the suspension out", can it by done by factory options or needs to be aftermarket, and rough cost?

In order to get GTI like handling, you will need to add aftermarket suspension. Most of us who have done this, have used the H&R Sport Spring set (about $800 fitted), which drops the body by 40mm, significantly firms up the suspension and reduces body roll. That with a rear swaybar (abour $350 fitted) makes it handle similar to a GTI.

Bear in mind that the Tig as standard is the best handling small SUV out there, with a very good balance between handling and comfort, so drive 1 first to see if you can live with it stock before going down the suspension mod route.

A good set of 18" or 19" high performance tyres also transforms the handling as the stock tyres are not very good at all from a handling perspective. It may be that upgraded wheels is all you would need.

[clip]

I've got a 2008 MY09 Golf GTI. Its a great little car,

shhh, don't let the GTI boys hear you saying that they're a "great little car" - ruin their street cred

Seriously though, everything that sharkie has said. If you want an exceptionally handling, fast car with practicality, then I don't think you can go past the tig, with these minor mods. Which reminds me, what is it with XR6 owners that think they can out accelerate a Tig - I had to embarass another yesterday on the way home At least GTI owners seem to know to be cautious now

[aussietig]

shhh, don't let the GTI boys hear you saying that they're a "great little car" - ruin their street cred

Seriously though, everything that sharkie has said. If you want an exceptionally handling, fast car with practicality, then I don't think you can go past the tig, with these minor mods. Which reminds me, what is it with XR6 owners that think they can out accelerate a Tig - I had to embarass another yesterday on the way home At least GTI owners seem to know to be cautious now

Know what you mean ... but you gotta watch out for those de-badged XR6 turbos.

[clip]

Know what you mean ... but you gotta watch out for those de-badged XR6 turbos.

yeh the buggers, good luck to them though, I'd probably being the same.

[250]

Tbh, I've never really got the comparison between standard and modified cars. Weve just bought a tiguan 2.0T and owned a GTI for about 3 years, the GTI is far quicker as standard, better handling, better braking and quicker accelerating, sory guys that near 300kg weight difference and higher rolling suspension really does effect the performance and fuel economy.

Don't get me the wrong the tig is ace, love it but it really isn't a GTI even with the same engine. I think a stage one tiguan would make up for that weight disadvantage, but you'd need to upgrade the suspesion to stop the roll into the corners.

My mate has a stage 1 GTI, and it really embarrasses the Tig... After all that weight disadvantage is like having a full car of people vs just a driver.

Definitely interested in a stage one for the tig and gti, makes the 2.0T come alive.

[team_v]

Tbh, I've never really got the comparison between standard and modified cars. Weve just bought a tiguan 2.0T and owned a GTI for about 3 years, the GTI is far quicker as standard, better handling, better braking and quicker accelerating, sory guys that near 300kg weight difference and higher rolling suspension really does effect the performance and fuel economy.

Don't get me the wrong the tig is ace, love it but it really isn't a GTI even with the same engine. I think a stage one tiguan would make up for that weight disadvantage, but you'd need to upgrade the suspesion to stop the roll into the corners.

My mate has a stage 1 GTI, and it really embarrasses the Tig... After all that weight disadvantage is like having a full car of people vs just a driver.

Definitely interested in a stage one for the tig and gti, makes the 2.0T come alive.

You would be surprised at just how well the Tiguan will handle when you push it.
Sure coilovers would help but i have not felt the need to upgrade mine yet.

I think the modified tig vs gti point is that you can get a Stage 1 + small mods tig for 40k which is less than a gti.

[Sharkie]

Tbh, I've never really got the comparison between standard and modified cars. Weve just bought a tiguan 2.0T and owned a GTI for about 3 years, the GTI is far quicker as standard, better handling, better braking and quicker accelerating, sory guys that near 300kg weight difference and higher rolling suspension really does effect the performance and fuel economy.

Don't get me the wrong the tig is ace, love it but it really isn't a GTI even with the same engine. I think a stage one tiguan would make up for that weight disadvantage, but you'd need to upgrade the suspesion to stop the roll into the corners.

My mate has a stage 1 GTI, and it really embarrasses the Tig... After all that weight disadvantage is like having a full car of people vs just a driver.

Definitely interested in a stage one for the tig and gti, makes the 2.0T come alive.

If you read my post again you'll notice the following:

1. You need to upgrade the Tigs suspension to make it handle as good as a stock GTI.

2. Stock Tigs are at least 0.5s slower to 100km/h than a stock GTI and due to their weight more than that 80-120km/h. AWD traction keeps it closer of the line but the extra weight kills it in overtaking and day to day driving.

3. Add some extra power to both Tig and GTI and where the GTI struggles to put the power down, the Tig just grips and goes. Stg1 Tig quicker than a Stg 1 GTI to 100km/h ..... Believe me I've "tested" this many many times ......

4. The extra weight comes into play though in overtaking and on the quarter mile where a STg 1 GTI is a fair bit quicker.

5. So unless you "race " a GTI off the line, the Stg 1 Tig will be slightly slower everywhere you cannot use the AWD advantage.

But watch out for those sleeper Tigs at the lights, normally ends in tears (repeatedly) for GTIs and even stock Rs ....

[pologti18t]

I think the modified tig vs gti point is that you can get a Stage 1 + small mods tig for 40k which is less than a gti.

You can pick up a new GTI onroad for 40K (as advertised by VW). Can you get a 155TSI on road for that?

[jessv3]

2. Stock Tigs are at least 0.5s slower to 100km/h than a stock GTI and due to their weight more than that 80-120km/h. AWD traction keeps it closer of the line but the extra weight kills it in overtaking and day to day driving.

Perhaps for the top of the line 155tsi (or the previous 147) but the 125 (which is now the 132tsi) 0-100 is 9.5 which is very slow, I doubt even once it was chipped it would come near the golf's stock time of 6.9. Not that it really matters though, as someone else has already mentioned comparing a stock vs a chipped car is backwards. The golf is faster from the factory so will have the advantage once its been tuned, the same applies to the suspension, if you spend thousands on the golfs suspension it will have the upper hand over the tig.

[team_v]

You can pick up a new GTI onroad for 40K (as advertised by VW). Can you get a 155TSI on road for that?

Perhaps for the top of the line 155tsi (or the previous 147) but the 125 (which is now the 132tsi) 0-100 is 9.5 which is very slow, I doubt even once it was chipped it would come near the golf's stock time of 6.9. Not that it really matters though, as someone else has already mentioned comparing a stock vs a chipped car is backwards. The golf is faster from the factory so will have the advantage once its been tuned, the same applies to the suspension, if you spend thousands on the golfs suspension it will have the upper hand over the tig.

Bang for your buck is what we are talking about.
I can pick up a 132, and whack stage 2 on it with suspension mods and it will out perform a stock Mk6 GTI for the same price (40k as advertised today)