TSI or TDI ....which one to order?

[Greg Roles]

For the record I have driven, actually flogged, my GT TDI for near three years now, and it's never seen over 7L/100 calculated via the log book, and in fact is usually around 6. That is also the consensus with a LOT of euro diesel guys I know now across several manufacturers. I pretty much can't get less than 800k out of a tank in now ludicrous Brisbane traffic, driving it hard. The diesel has lots of downfalls, economy is most definately not one of them, and I challenge anyone on that.

Obviously a SUV is going to use more fuel than a car, as it's a lot heavier and is lugging around 4WD gear, let alone the aerodynamics, tyres etc etc.

Drive them both, buy the one you like, I sure didn't go in wanting or even considering a diesel, but one test drive blew my mind, and decision.

[Sanman]

I calculate that the cost of the diesel over the 125 would take about 4 years to pay back at current fuel prices. Not a good equation. Why I got the diesel over the petrol is the diesel drives more like a 6 cyl Commodore, plenty of low down torque, breathless when revved, perfect for city traffic work. And as a bonus, I only have to fill every two weeks, not every week, and diesel prices are constant, none of this fill on the cheapest day of the week drama. Refreshing.

[Buller_Scott]

To put it into perspective ... especially since you're coming from a Turbo Territory ... TSI has performance and TDI has not.

Chipped TSI will outrun a Turbo Territory (0-100 in around 6s dead) whereas a chipped TDI will not crack 10s even going down hill. Overtaking 80-120 in a TSI in around 3.5s whereas a TDI will take 9s ... that is a huge amount of time to be exposed to oncoming traffic.

wow, i didnt know that diesels were so unbelievably slow, especially downhill. oettinger advertises a 9.6sec 0-100 time for their tune, and anyone who knows diesels, knows that you can get much more aggressive figures from tuners other than oettinger (oettinger not even really being on the map).

seeing as, like others on this forum who like to talk crap about diesel, you seem to know so much about diesels, let me ask one question- you had a polo gti with mods. if diesels are so slow, howcome chipped polo tdi's can keep up with chipped polo gti's in the twisties?

and im not talking about what you THINK you might know about how diesels may drive... there are vic peeps who can confirm the statement i made above

anyway, regarding the OP, i'd really suggest driving them back to back. if you're looking for V-Tec power, all upper end figures and stuff what happens before redline, then dont even consider the diesel...

but you might find that low down torque is actually a nice thing to have, and that it makes for very easy driving in anything from highway cruising, to driving in the twisties.

i'd really suggest driving them both. you never know what will happen. i came from a mk3 VR6, and when i was shopping for a new car, i had my sights set on the polo gti. i test drove the tdi as well, and was surprised to find that it actually suited me better.

dont presume- try 'em all.

[patto]

Geez, there are a few people on here with fanboi-ism I think.

Anyway, firstly... drive both the TSI and TDI - I had been a petrol man all my life but have in the past 3 years been converted to Diesel and will never go back.

One thing I suggest you think about is what rev range do you expect to be spending the majority of your driving life?
If you are going to be driving in the 0-4000rpm range (as in just about every driving situation) then go for the diesel, sure they are a little bit noiser but they are fun to drive with the Nm monster under the bonnet.
If you are going to be driving 3500rpm+ most of the time, then go the petrol variant.

Plus, its fricken annoying when people come on here and start touting "a chipped petrol is better than diesel" - Apples and Oranges - some people dont want to pay another 2k permium for the chip+mods AND you can get a chip for a diesel too!!!!!

Do youself a favour and drive both, diesels are not what they used to be and the petrol engine is also a great one.

Cheers

[jimbomort]

agree drive both, all the figs and stats in the world dont convey 'the feel' of any car

for everyday driving diesel is fine and I know plenty of people happy with their diesel tigs. On the topic of torque however, lets clarify that the chipped tsi has substantially more torque than the standard diesel across the entire rev range. Chipped the TSI will outgrunt the diesel right from idle. Also in 0-4000rpm, the chipped tsi (and not chipped) goes much harder from 2500rpm.

This is comparing chipped with not and I am not advocating the tsi over the diesel, just clarifying some facts. I think I would be happy with the Tig either way and not everyone will want to chip their new Tig.

However dont be fooled into thinking the diesel is the torque monster of the two. Chipped the TSI is a very strong motor right from idle - quite happy to drive around all day at low revs and then push you into the back of the seat if you put the foot down. It is also quite economical if driven sensibly, especially on the hwy.

So the case for the diesel is really on fuel economy, or some extra torque IF YOU WILL NEVER chip your new tig.

[Sharkie]

If you are going to be driving in the 0-4000rpm range (as in just about every driving situation) then go for the diesel, sure they are a little bit noiser but they are fun to drive with the Nm monster under the bonnet.
If you are going to be driving 3500rpm+ most of the time, then go the petrol variant.

Plus, its fricken annoying when people come on here and start touting "a chipped petrol is better than diesel" - Apples and Oranges - some people dont want to pay another 2k permium for the chip+mods AND you can get a chip for a diesel too!!!!!

I see the popular misconception of TDI v TSI torque still exists ....

A stock TDI makes max torque of 320NM for exactly 750rmins (1750-2500rmin) and then tapers off gradually at 1st then quite steeply from 3500rmin onwards. At 3500rmins it makes about 280NM and at 4400rmin about 210NM.

A stock TSI makes max torque of 280NM for 3300rmins !!!! (1700 -5000rmins). This is the reason TDI fanatics thinks there is a huge difference as the little torque spike of the TDI is missing from the TSI's table top torque curve. At 1700 rmin it makes more torque than the TDI and again from 3500rmins onwards. The new direct injection engines have all but erased any torque advantages from the diesels.

In fact the 2.0TSI in the Audi Q5 makes 350NM in stock form and keeps it for 3000rmins .... not just 750 ...

So ... a chipped TDI makes 370NM with a similar torque graph to the stock TDI and a chipped TSI makes 400NM with a similar curve to the stock TSI. 400 is greater than 370 ? yes ?

Last time I checked the TDIs cost more than the TSIs by more than what the APR chip will set you back so for the same price you can have all the torque across a wide rev range and not be restricted to a power band a few 1000rmin wide.

The trade off to that would be increased fuel consumption in comparison to the TDIs.

Don't ever get fooled by the torque peaks as apparently plenty of members here have been and still are. The OP in this case is a clear motoring enthusiast given his history, so any of my points till now have been spot on for apparent needs.

And don't think I don't appreciate the VW TDI tech either .... I have a 103TDI Multivan on a boat coming here right now .... its just I appreciate the TSIs more ...

[Buller_Scott]

The OP in this case is a clear motoring enthusiast given his history, so any of my points till now have been spot on for apparent needs.

And don't think I don't appreciate the VW TDI tech either .... I have a 103TDI Multivan on a boat coming here right now .... its just I appreciate the TSIs more ...

Yes, you do appreciate the TSI's more, and to be quite honest, i think what you've done- thinking outside the box, and laterally, and finding an absolute gem of a tuning opportunity in a soft roader with big grunt, grip, awd versatility and composure (in the twisties, no less), is pretty damn cool.

and from the OP's subsequent posts- you're right, he does appear to be an enthusiast, who is keen to follow in the same footsteps as yourself, regarding enhancements.

yourself, and team_V have very very strong cases for modded TSI tigs. however, and despite your persuasive discussion, i still think that the diesel tigs have a good case going for them, even for your average joe-blogs in most real world situations, who is thinking about getting it chipped and taking it over black spur every few weeks for a bit of a giggle.

i guess now we just wait and see whether mgs996tt did indeed take both out, and if he did, what his impressions were.

[team_v]

It really comes down to what you are going to use it for and how often you will use it.

I did the sums and it would take 10 years at the current price difference between premium and diesel do reach parity in price for the diesel model over the petrol model.
I also do a bit of short distance driving which is said to be pretty harsh on the DPF.
The DPF also worried me a bit as there was no delete option availalbe as yet.

I can see the merits for both but the TDI fealt like a car to get me from A - B while the TSI has me grinning like the cheshire cat when i drive it.

Hopefully the OP can test drive both and let us know their choice.

[clip]

I personally can't see any advantage in a diesel other than fuel economy ('real' advantage arguable in any case, given current fuel pricing). IMO, just a marketing ploy at the moment to try and boost new car sales. And while ever we've got gooses like Will Hagen and other motoring journos sprouting the same mis-information about new cars in general, the public will be dragged along with it. I can't believe how very wrong they can be sometimes and still be reguarded as an expert - no accountability at all, or so it it seems to me.

Sorry, back to the thread though, if I was to buy a TDi it would have to be an auto. It does a much, much better job of keeping the engine in the sweet spot than i can with a manual. In fact the manual TDI drove me crazy -hated it, but I really quite liked the auto.

[Transporter]

There are advantages of the diesel over the petrol engine, no doubts about it. Since the TDI doesn't need to be reved over 2,500 rpm to stay in max. torque range of 320Nm (not 280) whole day, the engine will accumulate less wear over the time. Did I mention the turbo, that spins much faster at higher engine speeds? That will cost a bit to repair/replace. So definitely in long run the TDI will cost less. Another advantage is, if you load up TDI Tig it will still have decent performance compared to TSI. During the test drive I was able to cruise up the hill in TDI much easier than in 125TSI. I must admit that TSI was much quicker on flat and at the higher speeds and superb quiet compared to TDI, the difference going from TSI Tig to TSI on test run comparing the noise level, was let's say not comparable, if you're a petrol head.

So for me it would be TDI again. But if I could have both of them, then the TSI as a project car.

[Greg Roles]

Just wanted to congratulate Scotty on a very well thought out and mature response from the diesel clan, well done mate!