Using E85 on the Tig

[Large Fruit]

A fair few people are using this now with awesome results.

Has anyone tried to run E85 on the 2.0T engine?

I can't find anything for Golf GTI's but it seems like a stack of others are using it (even the oldies like R33 skylines).

I never keep anything for more than 2yrs so i'm not fussed if it kills it 10yrs down the track.

Question to APR - Would you look into developing a tune to use E85? Can i lend you my car?

[team_v]

Don't do it.
VW does not reccomend that you use Ethanol blends in the Tiguan.

The savings that you make at the pump equate to nothing as you end up burning more fuel (getting a worse economy) and the 98Ron fuel is cleaner and works better in the engine.

[Large Fruit]

Not after savings. Just want power

Has anyone in the US used E85 in their cars?

[team_v]

From wikipedia: Tests indicate approximately a 5%-20%increase in engine performance is possible by switching to E85 fuel in high performance cars.

If you want more power the best bet is the ecu remap though as Vw do not reccomend ethanol blends.

Ounce for ounce ethanol contains less energy than gasoline. At the same time ethanol can have a much higher octane rating than gasoline. The paradox is an engine designed to run on lower octane gasoline will not burn ethanol very efficiently. This means in general that more ethanol must be burned to return the same energy as gasoline from such an engine. Conversely a high compression or turbocharged engine designed to extract every bit of energy from ethanol will not run very well at all on low octane gasoline. Many of the existing Flex Fuel vehicles actually experience a decrease in fuel economy when running E85 over straight gasoline. While this problem may be offset by the lower pump cost of E85 the benefit of burning more fuel to achieve an environmental end is somewhat questionable.

On the plus side engines and vehicles exist and are on the way that burn E85 at maximum efficiency. Through use of turbochargers and other means, an engine specifically designed to run on E85 or even straight ethanol can return a great deal of energy indeed. Drag and circle track racers have known about this fact for a long time. Racers have been burning up ethanol's chemical cousin methanol and setting records for many years. In fact the Indy Racing League is making the switch over to E85 this coming year. Other racing organizations are considering the switch as well. Alternative fuels, such as E85, need not be boring! A vehicle specifically designed to run only E85 or 100 percent ethanol can solve the efficiency problem but cannot get around a lack of distribution. In this sense a Flexible Fuel Vehicle is indeed flexible, for it can run on E85 or gasoline.

[Sharkie]

A fair few people are using this now with awesome results.

Has anyone tried to run E85 on the 2.0T engine?

I can't find anything for Golf GTI's but it seems like a stack of others are using it (even the oldies like R33 skylines).

I never keep anything for more than 2yrs so i'm not fussed if it kills it 10yrs down the track.

Question to APR - Would you look into developing a tune to use E85? Can i lend you my car?

Your VW warranty will immediately be non-existent. VW does not recommend fuel with any ethanol in it and I have an email from them in which they state that the use of any fuel with more than 10% ethanol will instantly void the warranty should it be detected in your car, whether it fails or not.

Now, given that even an APR chip will cancel your warranty should it be detected to be the cause of an engine failure, this sounds no worse. In reality, though, the likelihood of an APR induced failure is very very small, whereas the failure of an engine not designed to run fuel with more than 15% ethanol is almost guaranteed....

I suspect APR also won't bother doing it for a once off anyway.

Bottom line is ...

Don't do it, this is a recipe for disaster .... it won't take 2yrs to fail, more likely a few hours as there is more than engine tuning required to run E85. Holden specifically build their E85 capable engines for a reason ....

[Guy_H]

APR & USP Motorsports built a 600whp E85 Stage 3 GTI a couple of years ago - lots of hardware changes needed to run E85, so an expensive setup.

A lot of the new cars are starting to come "flex fuel" compliant, all though there are none Australian delivered VW & Audi that we have seen - even though the ECU's have the different map option capability.

[Guy_H]

VWVortex.com - Obama said go green....so USP went green! (E85 Content))

Found the old link.

[Tigger]

Are you crazy man! (I mean that in a nice way...)

Using E85 in a car like our Tig has been well described before as similar to you eating only Mccrapples or Hungry Jokes for every meal!
Sure, it will fill you up, but what will it do to you?????
(remember 'Supersize Me'?. It took only one month...not ten years....)

[Transporter]

Hmm, drivers be aware; from the "Alternative Fuels" to the "Flex-Fuels"... I like that.
But, no thanks, I prefer to drink diesel.

[Guy_H]

I like the way that E85 eats the factory VW plastic intake manifold

[brad]

I like the way that E85 eats the factory VW plastic intake manifold

How would that work on a vehicle that direct injects into the combustion chamber?

I think peoples aversion to ethanol / alcohol is based on hearsay rather than fact.

If you want to produce some big power numbers, then ethanol will get you there, but for E85 you'll need to be able to flow about 30% more fuel through the injectors and change some ECU parameters to take advantage of the 105ron octane on offer.
The mixture will burn leaner because of the Oxygen in the molecular structure.
Ethanol is a clean burning fuel & also has cleaning properties (decarbonising).

If you wish to experiment, you might wish to start with E15 - about 11l of eflex to 44L of 98ron which will give 99ron. You need 22L eFlex + 33L 98ron to get above 100ron. You could do this differently & buy 100ron e10 from United petroleum if one of the 3 stations that sell it is near to you.

[Guy_H]

E85 requires 8 injectors for 4 cylinders at this HP level.

Read the thread Brad

[brad]

E85 requires 8 injectors for 4 cylinders at this HP level.

Read the thread Brad

i did.... and the links.
Your post didn't specifically mention the big HP version & I assumed you were advising the OP that his plastic manifolfd would melt if he used E85. I hope you understand my confusion.

[Guy_H]

No prob's - it sounds like a radical setup (the big HP version) - certainly not for the faint hearted.

It will be interesting to see how many of the plastic & rubber components become E85 "compatible" over time, & if they will be adopted across the board as the" standard". Makes sense, but the economics may not stack up yet.

[brad]

Fuel in Brazil, Argentina & a few of the other Sth American countries is heavily laced with ethanol. I think E85 is the main seller in Brazil. VW sold ~70,000 units in Brazil alone in 2009 and has a presence in 25 other Latin American countries, so i assume that VW have the materials technology already. I guess it's just a case of deciding whether they are happy to take the hit to Corporate Average Fuel Economy figures or whether they just think that E85 infrastucture isn't established enough (which it isn't).