Tig v's Forrester? (Also TDI vs TSI pro's and con's)

[Arctra]

I did Sharkie and I agree with you that 125 TSI is faster, quieter and more refined car to drive. I was (still am) leaning towards TSI but my wife decided to go for more economical car to drive....

...Jumping from the TSI into the TDI was like swapping the car for the tractor first....

....if you will keep your Tiguan for just 3-4 years and you will do no more than 60,000km, it is not [worth getting the TDI just for economy]!

WOW! This is a pretty glowing endorsement of the TSI given you are such an oil burner fan Miro! You're making me wonder whether I should be feeling some buyers remorse now. After what you've said, i think I should bury my head in the sand and not test the TSI for fear of regret.

So, I haven't checked your figures and how you calculated the cost of ownership, but just taking your word for it I have probably made teh right decision. I intend keeping the Tig for at least 5 years, if not longer, and my main intention when looking at the TDI was to own an economical car. I haven't owned the car a year yet and have clocked over 21000km's already, so will easily make the 60000km figure you mention.

My biggest gripe with the TDI is the dead spot before the turbo kicks in, and I would advise anyone thinking of the TDI to test thi seriously before buying. If you want to be able to quickly nip across an interfection, or turn right across oncoming traffic, the dead spot will seriously test your nerve. On a couple of occassions I have nearly needed a nappy change as the car just didn't "take off" untill the turbo kicked in and it then launched! I don't think the petrol will have as much of a problem with this as the oil burner.

Anyway, thanks for that feedback Miro. Am sure the TSI boys will be happy with you

[TENKAN]

Dead spot

We don't take delivery until June but I've heard others mention this dead spot, can any petrol owners comment if they experience this too.

147TSI on order.

Thanks

[team_v]

We don't take delivery until June but I've heard others mention this dead spot, can any petrol owners comment if they experience this too.

147TSI on order.

Thanks

Easy solution = APR ecu remap.
Smooth torque curve and power delivery.
Well worth the upgrade as it reduces fuel consumption when driven economically over the stock map.





I went the petrol over the diesel as I did the sums and it worked out that i would need to drive the petrol for at least 9 years before reaching parity with the diesel using current fuel prices (premium unleaded and normal diesel) and standard drive away prices.

[TENKAN]

Been looking into the APR upgrade, when I asked the the guy at Mona Vale about having it done by their mobile service he said they would have to see the car first.

Is the ECU in the 2010 builds different from previous versions, Team V you and I are expecting delivery at the same time have you heard anything.

Thanks again

[Sharkie]

We don't take delivery until June but I've heard others mention this dead spot, can any petrol owners comment if they experience this too.

The TSIs don't have this problem, spools up earlier and quicker than the TDI and is therefore smoother with less of the turbo rush feeling. It is the reason some people believe the TDIs to be "more powerful" ....

The TSIs to be honest feels like a much bigger (4.0l) normally aspirated car ....

The APR chip then adds the turbo rush feeling to the TSIs .... which I have to admit is simply awesome .... you still get the big car NA feel and then as you roll past 2500rpm the instant turbo rush .....

Congrats on the Tig, Transporter, I'm sure you'll have years of enjoyment out if it .... though every time you see a TSI Tig go past you'll have a moment of regret ....

You do realise, that with your ordered specs, you are only $1100 off a 147TSI (with all its lovely extra goodies) ? .....

Arctra, get in touch with your closest Oettinger dealer .... they will help remove the dead spot for you .... .... also, even though they are a bit pricier than some, you get a full warranty that covers anything chip related, which nobody else provides and how much is you car worth to you at the end of the day?

[Transporter]

Congrats on the Tig, Transporter, I'm sure you'll have years of enjoyment out if it .... though every time you see a TSI Tig go past you'll have a moment of regret ....

You do realize, that with your ordered specs, you are only $1100 off a 147TSI (with all its lovely extra goodies) ? .....

Thanks Sharkie, I know...., I still have the time to change the specs but when I was road testing TSI I got caught in the traffic jam and was watching the fuel economy creeping up to over 12L, that's why I said, that everyone who cannot make the decision which engine from the two, needs to consider the driving environment. When we drove to wife's work in the evening and than back in the morning the fuel economy was avrg. 6.1L in the morning coming back (wife driving), but I got it down to ridiculous avrg. 5.7L/100km including searching for the parking spot. (there was no traffic on the road on sat. morning).

I do realize that I'm only approx. $2,500 of the 147TSI with the options I got listed. and I believe that we would get very close fuel economy to the TDI (within 2L, that's what I based my calculation on).

[Sharkie]

can you tell me if the ECU upgrade can be done as soon as we get the car or do I have to run it in a bit.

I waited until I had done about a 1000km, just to make sure all is OK and everything was bedded in and working as expected.

On the GTI though I did it the day after picking it up from the dealer and drove it for 3 yrs with no issues whatsoever.

[Sharkie]

Thanks Sharkie, I know...., I still have the time to change the specs but when I was road testing TSI I got caught in the traffic jam and was watching the fuel economy creeping up to over 12L, that's why I said, that everyone who cannot make the decision which engine from the two, needs to consider the driving environment. When we drove to wife's work in the evening and than back in the morning the fuel economy was avrg. 6.1L in the morning coming back (wife driving), but I got it down to ridiculous avrg. 5.7L/100km including searching for the parking spot. (there was no traffic on the road on sat. morning).

I do realize that I'm only approx. $2,500 of the 147TSI with the options I got listed. and I believe that we would get very close fuel economy to the TDI (within 2L, that's what I based my calculation on).

I've got your Tig as $41890 with your options and the 147 at $42990 ..... but more importantly and something thats not mentioned often ....

The TDI Tig has a DPF, yes? .... and that is not suited at all to sustained city driving ..... so add the cost of replacing that (and its not covered under warranty) frequently ..... and its expensive ....

[Transporter]

I've got your Tig as $41890 with your options and the 147 at $42990 ..... but more importantly and something thats not mentioned often ....

The TDI Tig has a DPF, yes? .... and that is not suited at all to sustained city driving ..... so add the cost of replacing that (and its not covered under warranty) frequently ..... and its expensive ....

Our Touareg has the DPF and driven in the city, so far it is fine I check the particle loading and don't expect it to be a problem (should easily pass 200,000km)

Sharkie, if you remember; what was your average fuel consumption before chipping?

[Sharkie]

Our Touareg has the DPF and driven in the city, so far it is fine I check the particle loading and don't expect it to be a problem (should easily pass 200,000km)

Sharkie, if you remember; what was your average fuel consumption before chipping?

Good, I have no experience with the DPFs, but have read some horror stories on here (in other sections) about them ..... have to take it with a grain of salt I suppose ....

My average fuel consumption before chipping (all of 1.5 tanks) was around 9.5l/100km and that was while running it in, keeping the revs lowish but still giving it a bit to help the bedding in process .....

Since I do 97% of my driving in the city (and I drive it hard), my average consumption has always been less great than what it could be ... ... my latest tank looks to be around 15l/100km, but thats only because I've been enjoying the DP (and extra power) addition a bit too much ....

[jimbomort]

I suppose if you want to buy TSI there is no reason to try TDI, it doesn't do anything better than the TSI, except when you load it up and drive in hilly areas ......

Reason for buying TDI
I believe it is a better towing vehicle

Agree with all that except the bits I've left in above.

With the remap, the TSI has considerably more torque than the TDI and at no point in the rev range, has less torque. Indeed the torque is very impressive with the remap, hills are almost meaningless and towing would be a breeze. In fact I would go close to saying that with the remap, the TSI is just about the perfect engine, happy to lug around at low revs and return quite good fuel economy for everyday driving, with some serious get up and go in the mid to upper range when you need it or hey, just plain want it!. Only thing its missing is a crescendo building top end for the true sport enthusiast, but its a mute point - you'd buy a sports car if that was important.

Even without the remap the TSI has higher torque than the TDI at idle and low revs (useful off road), and would still be a good tow vehicle, but agree in the rev range you'd generally be in, the TDI would be better for towing and hills than a stock TSI. But add the remap at no huge cost and

I have seen some say it feels more like a 4.0 l motor. Thats because it really is like a 4.0 l motor, with the remap the TSI has almost as much power as a 4.0L falcon and actually has more torque!

With all that said, I'd have a tiguan with either motor and the fuel economy of the TDI is very good.

[Transporter]

I'd have a tiguan with either motor and the fuel economy of the TDI is very good.

I 100% agree with you. It was a hard decision but better fuel economy in heavy city traffic was in the favor of the TDI, despite the DPF.

Should everyone not knowing which one to choose keep in mind that if you drive on hwy or 50hwy:50city, the fuel consumption of the TSI will not be that far from the TDI.

Reason for buying TDI
I believe it is a better towing vehicle

better because it will get a very good fuel consumption while towing compared to TSI in the same situation.

[clip]

I have seen some say it feels more like a 4.0 l motor. Thats because it really is like a 4.0 l motor, with the remap the TSI has almost as much power as a 4.0L falcon and actually has more torque!

very true, the problem is though (for the falcon or other 6cylinder - toyota etc) that the Tig has such a broad torque / power range, and the Falcon doesn't. Hence why a remapped Tig will out do a new falcon (and the 'potent' Aurion that, in true toyota form, is all bottom end ) - especially in the rolling acceleration stakes.

[jimbomort]

very true, the problem is though (for the falcon or other 6cylinder - toyota etc) that the Tig has such a broad torque / power range, and the Falcon doesn't. Hence why a remapped Tig will out do a new falcon (and the 'potent' Aurion that, in true toyota form, is all bottom end ) - especially in the rolling acceleration stakes.

yeh, no doubt the torque spread in the remapped TSI is impressive, but they reach their peak at about the same revs (2500rpm) and I've never seen a torque curve for a falcon. I have for a turbo falcon, and that was impressively flat from relatively low revs.

Weight is also important, the falcon has to carry around almost 100kg more, that alone could explain the difference in performance.

[Sharkie]

Well, I now know from experience that a new XR8 Ute with fat (and loud) modified exhausts have nothing on our Tig .......

BTW, Jimbo .... were you driving around 100km south of Coffs Harbour yesterday at around 5pm ? .... spotted a light blue TSI Tig with NSW plates on my way back from the Melbourne GP .....