What to do in case like this?

[jfranek]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/cruise-control-terror-for-freeway-driver-20091215-ktxn.html

This is not a troll thread!!! This is an honest question -
Could this happen to the Tiguan?
I hope it never happens, but if it does, how to stop the Tig?
It does not have a mechanical handbrake!
Is the 'electronic' handbrake independent of the central computer?
I hope this will start a serious discussion.
I wonder if this incident triggers news announcements from car makers.

Joe

Edit: The current version of the article is slightly different than the original version. Just in case the article dissappears alltogether, here is copy and paste -

Cruise control terror for freeway driver
LARISSA HAM AND ROBYN GRACE
December 15, 2009 - 6:19PM
A terrified 22-year-old driver thought he was going to die when a jammed cruise control trapped him in his four-wheel drive for half an hour as it raced along the Eastern Freeway.
In a scene reminiscent of thriller blockbuster Speed, the Ford Explorer’s cruise control got stuck at 80km/h as he tried to take the Burke Road exit in Melbourne’s north-east about 12.40pm.
Chase Weir today told Radio 3AW of his frantic calls to Ford and police after discovering he could not switch off the large vehicle, which was hitting speeds of more than 80km/h.
‘‘The person I spoke to at Ford service said the key wasn’t moving because it was driving in the wrong gear,’’ Mr Weir told 3AW.
‘‘At first he said ‘don’t drive the car because it’s dangerous’ and I said ‘well, that’s kind of the problem - I’m actually in the car and I cannot stop it’.’’
As the traffic got heavier, Mr Weir hung up and called Triple-O, where a police sergeant helped calm the scared motorist as the Ford sped along the freeway.
‘‘She asked me to again try turning the ignition off, put the car in neutral, put your whole body weight on the footbrake,’’ he told 3AW.
‘‘When I did that the car slowed to 80km/h but then the footbrake just became stiff, it wouldn’t go any further. So it was like I had no brakes,’’ he said.
‘‘The police sergeant told me to straight away put my hazards on and stay in the emergency lane.
‘‘It was a bit scary because every now and then you’d come up to someone sitting in the emergency lane talking on their mobile.’’
Police arrived quickly, with two cars under sirens and lights driving ahead of the tearaway four-wheel-drive to clear traffic.
‘‘Pretty much that’s all they could do until I reached Frankston and that’s just when I saw three or four lanes of traffic that wasn’t moving very fast and I’m doing 100 and I just said to her 'I’m going to die'.
‘‘And I just put all my weight on that footbrake, swerved on the wrong side of the road to avoid running into the back of everyone including other police cars, went over the concrete road island, bounced a bit.’’
Mr Weir also pulled on the handbrake, bringing the car to a halt outside the Monash University Peninsula campus - and just half a metre away from a head-on collision.
The 22-year-old, who is now recovering in Frankston Hospital, said he suffered some whiplash, and shock.
Police have taken the Ford for inspection.
‘‘Which I’m fine with,’’ Mr Weir laughed.
Ford Australia public relations manager Sinead McAlary said Ford had not experienced anything like this before.
‘‘We will be making contact with the driver as soon as possible to learn more about what took place and then get access to his vehicle to investigate the matter further," she said.

[Arctra]

The same could be asked with a lot of modern vehicles, no just the Tig. The drive-by-wire setup where the computer takes your input, processes it, then commands other components how to react has been around ages, and every now and then this is bound to happen.

In the aircraft world I know there is a difference in philosophy between Boeing and Airbus on the fly-by-wire front. Airbus will not allow the pilot to over-ride the aircrafts pre-programmed safety parameters, whereas I believe Boeing electronics give the pilot more wiggle room to exceed the aircraft specs in an emergency. Is one system better than the other? Who knows, but I would like to be able to exceed safety specs in order to save my bacon if needed.

The safety electonics in cars will end up having a similar debate I'm sure. ALready it is not possible to totally disengage the ESP and stability control totally in the Tig (I have actually tested this), so you are under the control of the vehicle electronics already (in case you didn't know that). If something goes wrong, one thing will not be able to be controlled by the electonics, and that's the laws of physics. I would have looked to scrape the vehicle on a wall, or deliberately run into the back of a bigger vehicle in as controlled a manner as I could so as to prevent injuring them, trusting that they would brake and bring my vehicle to a halt with theirs. Basically put my hands in the airbags and crumple zones of the car, then make one hell of a warrenty and insurance claim.

[team_v]

I can't access the article at work for some reason.

Surely you could just jump on the footbreak and turn the vehicle so it slides and reduces speed.

Turning off the car is not a good idea as it will triger the steering lock; however if you are aiming the car off-road and it is safe to do so (read: no cars/solid objects in danger zone) then it could be a viable option.

I like Arctra's idea of running up the back of a solid object like a truck.
The tig has outstanding safety reviews so it could be the best option.
Alternatviely, drive it into a river or something.

[brodzta_GTI]

Is the 'electronic' handbrake independent of the central computer?

Joe

it is.. the brakes are run from their own seperate control unit..

most of the major componets of the vehicle have their own control units which then talks to a "gateway" control unit, which then tells other control units of any issue's in the system.

the issue as i read it with the explorer was the hydraulic foot brake.. when he put his foot on the brake the brake light switch "should" of disabled the crusie circuit.. which of course it didnt.

The way the VW cruise works is that if the " check engine light" is on, the cruise wont work. if the brake light switch is faulty, the cruise wont work ( or your brake lights for that matter) if the switch has an internal short, the crusie wont work.

so in short id be waiting to hear what the police report says about the condition of the vehicle...

[jimbomort]

I haven't tried it on an auto at speed for a while, but why wouldn't you just put it in neutral? If it was a manual, nothing to stop you there and I imagine same with any auto?

I read that article and it suggested he did try a few things, but it was unclear about the simple approach - disengage the engine thats pushing you along, from the wheels.....

[mikinoz]

I'd install a kill switch just in case this is ever going to happen.

[The_Hawk]

Scary stuff indeed. Yet another good reason for a manual transmission

Assuming the cruise was stuck on and the brake wasn't disenganging it, the car would just add more power to keep up the speed, so I can see how the brake has little effect, assuming it was trying to engage.

What I am really interested in is the inabillity to change gear, or kill the engine, sure both of these are electronic these days and I understand why you shouldn't turn the car off (loss of assisted braking and other safety systems) which could force the car not to allow you to turn it off, As for the steering lock, it's only an issue if you pull the keys out since it's a physical pin.

Will be very interesting to hear the wrap up if it ever goes public.

[NZTiguan]

Sounds like a complete idiot to me. He can figure out how to make a cell phone call for help while dodging through traffic in an "out of control" vehicle (WOW it even reached 100 kph !!!) but can't figure out how to move the gear lever into neutral, pull on the handbrake, or if all else fails slide it along a crash barrier until it stops. Frankly I suspect it's a much exaggerated load of rubbish, even 22 year old Ford driver's aren't that stupid, or maybe they are ???

[jfranek]

Hi did try to shift to neutral.
Not everybody has a nerve to slide into a crash barrier at 80 - 100kph.

What eventually stopped the car was a combination of foot and hand brakes.

Does anybody know what the Tig would do if the electro-mechanical handbrake was engaged at 80kpm on a straight road? (Assuming it would work).
Could/should it be used as an emergency brake?

Joe

[Swallowtail]

Does anybody know what the Tig would do if the electro-mechanical handbrake was engaged at 80kpm on a straight road? (Assuming it would work).
Could/should it be used as an emergency brake?

Joe

Yes it will work. Try it. Seriously... it is pretty effective too. It is designed to be able to be used as an emergency brake.

[brh1978]

I was reading an article about the Toyota throttle issue in the USA, the article states:

Toyota will also add a so-called smart pedal, software that cuts engine power any time both the accelerator pedal and brake pedal are depressed at the same time.

Such software has already been adopted as a safety feature by a number of automakers, including Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, BMW, Nissan and Chrysler, the companies said.

Don't know for sure but the Tiguan probably has this system...

[duncan]

Re 'Smart Pedal' :It does and its a total pain in the bum if you 'heel and toe' whilst braking and changing gear. I'd love to be able to turn this 'feature' off.

Anyway on topic - I would have thought that it could have been put in Neutral: unless the load on the gearbox was such that it couldn't disengage. Not sure how the autobox works, but a manual box under load is hard if not impossible to shift under load (no clutch)
I can see how the electronics wouldn't allow him to drop down a gear to prevent over running

The only other instance I've heard of this was truck driver somewhere (UK I think) who drove saying his throttle was stuck open and his brakes had failed trying to stop it. When they analysed the trucks computer and parts the driver had made the situation up.
It'll be interesting what the outcome of this is

[gerhard]

I'm sitting on the fence on judging this one, because my tendency to analyse things has me crying B/S...

I can believe that a car ECU could fail, effectively locking out all input signals such as "key is off", and keep the thing running at full clip.

A Ford Explorer does not have drive-by-wire throttle, though, as far as I know, so in this case it would have to be a frayed cable preventing throttle return. But this is unlikely too, since there is always a spring on the throttle body to shut the throttle in case of cable disconnect. Maybe this jammed open, but he would have had to be using full throttle, the return spring would have broken and jammed itself fully open.

In that case, turning the key off would work, and throwing the auto into neutral should also work, albeit the engine would probably over-rev and self-destruct.

Then he was able to make phone calls while panicking - hmmmmm

So will he get booked for driving dangerously, speeding, and using the mobile?

[clip]

I saw the geek interviewed on TV. He was grinning and carrying on avoiding straight answers to the journo's questions. I'm calling on this. Not saying he didn't have a problem, just his "out co control, can't stop" scenario. As gerhard said, he was able to make multiple mobile calls while "running out of control".

[jfranek]

A follow-up article in The Age today -

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/black-box-to-provide-clues-to-cruise-control-drama-20091218-l0tv.html

It doesn't seem to be a high priority for the police, but Ford have to wait.