thinking about a tig !!

[qsilverza]

Hey, thinking about a 125 tsi tig (Not sure man or DSG yet) to tow the race car...

I guess power wouldn't be a problem once chipped, what more can be done to these without killing reliability and the pocket ?

I would probably do the following,

Haldex controller with switch
Swaybar's
Coilover's - lower it a lot, mainly for handling
Exhaust
High performance Brake pad's
High performance Brake fluid

And than any standard mods for a turbo car...

Has anyone used there's to tow yet ? How did it go ?

I hate having to buy an SUV but I can't justify having another car just to tow, so unless I can get the tow rating up on the Bora (Somehow, reason for a turbo !!!) I may have to bite the bullet

Any must have options ? I will probably wait until I can get a demo model or a used one.

[NZTiguan]

There is NO DSG option and IMHO your best tow vehicle out there would be the diesel/auto BUT I suspect that's not what you're really wanting going by the majority of your post. Be aware that the reason that there's no DSG is because of the diesel's torque (the new Golf has DSG 7 speed EXCEPT on the diesel which is the same 6 speed auto as on the Tig) and in at least one case in GB a manual diesel was replaced with an auto as the manual box didn't much like all that torque either !! and torque is what towing is all about.

Cheers

[Sharkie]

Looking at your list of planned mods, the only thing I'd add is a CAI.

Then you'd be looking at around 210-220kw and 420-430NM which would mean the Tig (with your suspension mods) would blow the socks off the Bora in almost any imaginable situation.

Looking at it, I can see no reason not to buy a Tig ...

I'd get a manual though .......

[NZTiguan]

Then you'd be looking at around 210-220kw and 420-430NM which would mean the Tig (with your suspension mods) would blow the socks off the Bora in almost any imaginable situation.

I'd get a manual though .......

Good luck holding the transmission together !!

[Sharkie]

Good luck holding the transmission together !!

Actually APR has been running a modified A3 2.0TFSI Quattro Manual, which is essentially the same setup as in the Tiguan; 6speed manual & 4Motion, for about 4 years and it has been making in excess of 210kw/430NM ......

Whats more is that this was a test mule and a loan car for customers so it suffered a really tough life ......

As far as I know it never had any problems with any bit of the drivetrain so I'd have no fear in delivering that much and more power through the Tiguan manual .....

[NZTiguan]

Actually APR has been running a modified A3 2.0TFSI Quattro Manual, which is essentially the same setup as in the Tiguan; 6speed manual & 4Motion, for about 4 years and it has been making in excess of 210kw/430NM ......

Whats more is that this was a test mule and a loan car for customers so it suffered a really tough life ......

As far as I know it never had any problems with any bit of the drivetrain so I'd have no fear in delivering that much and more power through the Tiguan manual .....

That's fine but I suggest you look at the threads in http://www.mytiguan.com/ regarding towing and the diesel/manual gearbox issue. You'll find that due to the problems associated specifically with towing with this combination VWGB actually replaced a near new manual Tig with an auto because of issues with the transmission. Just trying to warn of possible potential problems. Doubt that the test car mentioned above was used specifically for towing which is what you'd initially talked about.

Cheers

[qsilverza]

Thanks,

I understand the diesel would be a better option because of the torque, what does the 103 KW chip up to power wise ? Given that I want it to remain as car like as possible, I think the TFSI will be a better option for me though I wish they would make it sound like a VR

I don't think I would take the diesel, the TFSI engine is economical and powerful and of course lots of parts around for it as it's similar to the GTI engine.

Any problems with the manual 125tsi TIG ?

What are the brakes like on the 125 TSI are they 4pots ? 312 mm's ?

The 4motion and 02m Box(If that's what they are using) is very reliable. 4motion diff is rated to 700 bhp.

[NZTiguan]

What I've been trying to say is that when "towing", the manual gearbox has an issue when mated with the 125kw diesel because of the TORQUE it produces. If you are going to chip up the petrol engine so its torque is as high as you mentioned earlier then it will be HIGHER than the diesel therefore you COULD have issues with the manual gearbox. It's just the manual gearbox that I believe MAY be suspect with the added torque (particularly when towing) as evidenced by the fact that there have been issues in GB with precisely this scenario !! Get me ?

[Sharkie]

I'm sorry to say but the diesel does not make that much more torque than the TSI. Peak torque is only 40NM less which is not a lot. 125tsi makes max torque from 1700-4200rmin which means it probably makes more torque than the tdi (1750-2500rmin) at various parts of the rev range.

All this talk about diesel torque is also just rubbish. Modern petrol turbos make just as much with better tuning potential. Q5 petrol and diesel 2.0s both make 350NM standard, hooked to a 7spd DSG, difference is petrol makes it earlier and for much longer than the diesel. I know which is better and more preferable.

Granted that towing does put additional stresses on a gearbox and an upgraded clutch (in a manual) is probably the way to go if you make more power and torque than standard. You will not likely be able to break the gearbox unless you make lots and lots of power AND abuse the gearbox. Mechanical sympathy goes a long way ......

A single incident is also hardly a reason to start broadcasting rubbish to the world. Gearboxes around the world break for all kinds of reasons and until such time that many more have broken on a manual under similar circumstances I would not even start to worry about it, let alone broadcast to the world that manuals in Tiguans are prone to breakage.

[Sharkie]

Thanks,

I understand the diesel would be a better option because of the torque, what does the 103 KW chip up to power wise ? Given that I want it to remain as car like as possible, I think the TFSI will be a better option for me though I wish they would make it sound like a VR

I don't think I would take the diesel, the TFSI engine is economical and powerful and of course lots of parts around for it as it's similar to the GTI engine.

Any problems with the manual 125tsi TIG ?

What are the brakes like on the 125 TSI are they 4pots ? 312 mm's ?

The 4motion and 02m Box(If that's what they are using) is very reliable. 4motion diff is rated to 700 bhp.

Tiguan 2.0TFSI (both 125 and 147) are the same as in the upcoming MK6 GTI and the current MY09 MK5 GTI in the USA.

Front brakes are 312mm and not 4 pots . Any GTI brake upgrade will work though.

chips alone: 103kw/320NM tdi = 125kw/390NM & 125kw/280NM tsi = about 191kw/410NM

147kw/280NM tsi also = about 191kw/410NM ....

any GTI engine mod will work though, so, 300kw+/500NM+ is quite possible if your wallet is deep enough

Don't look at the Tiguan as a SUV ...... look at it as an AWD GTI ....... (for less $$$ than a GTI as well)

[clip]

Actually APR has been running a modified A3 2.0TFSI Quattro Manual, which is essentially the same setup as in the Tiguan; 6speed manual & 4Motion, for about 4 years and it has been making in excess of 210kw/430NM ...

If that's the one I'm thinking of, have you seen what they've done with it lately?

[qsilverza]

Thanks for that...

Any idea what stud pattern they are ? Going on that, the petrol model has got loadsss of torque to pull...

I want to see one that has been lowered and how that handles that would probably help me decide

Tiguan 2.0TFSI (both 125 and 147) are the same as in the upcoming MK6 GTI and the current MY09 MK5 GTI in the USA.

Front brakes are 312mm and not 4 pots . Any GTI brake upgrade will work though.

chips alone: 103kw/320NM tdi = 125kw/390NM & 125kw/280NM tsi = about 191kw/410NM

147kw/280NM tsi also = about 191kw/410NM ....

any GTI engine mod will work though, so, 300kw+/500NM+ is quite possible if your wallet is deep enough

Don't look at the Tiguan as a SUV ...... look at it as an AWD GTI ....... (for less $$$ than a GTI as well)

[NZTiguan]

A single incident is also hardly a reason to start broadcasting rubbish to the world. Gearboxes around the world break for all kinds of reasons and until such time that many more have broken on a manual under similar circumstances I would not even start to worry about it, let alone broadcast to the world that manuals in Tiguans are prone to breakage.

Jeez I was just trying to be helpful and warn of a "possible" consequence of chipping a manual. Doesn't worry me a jot cos I've got an unchipped diesel auto. Nothing I said was rubbish, it was all fact. I never said the gearbox had "broken" either. The FACTS are that a manual 125kw diesel specifically used for towing was replaced by VW with an auto version of the same car as not fit for the purpose (as I understand it). The transmission was making strange noises particularly on take off and was considered a risk for failure. The suggestion I was making to you was that if you're going to put even MORE torque through that gearbox, particularly when towing, then don't expect VW to wear any problems you have with the transmission. Just trying to save you some grief (based on actual facts with an actual Tiguan manual towcar) that's all. I do understand that a number of manual gearboxes in europe were replaced with an aluminium cased one (that was the explanation given) that seemed to overcome some early issues but I don't know 1: if that new gearbox is now standard or 2: if it would still have problems in a high torque, high load towing situation.

Next time I'll just leave you to find out for yourself.

[Transporter]

Actually APR has been running a modified A3 2.0TFSI Quattro Manual, which is essentially the same setup as in the Tiguan; 6speed manual & 4Motion, for about 4 years and it has been making in excess of 210kw/430NM ......

Whats more is that this was a test mule and a loan car for customers so it suffered a really tough life ......

As far as I know it never had any problems with any bit of the drivetrain so I'd have no fear in delivering that much and more power through the Tiguan manual .....

How many of the modified cars are they thesting?
Is it one only or more like 10 or 20 cars at the same time?
They can get lucky with one car only.
But it is OK if you like taking a risk.

[Sharkie]

How many of the modified cars are they thesting?
Is it one only or more like 10 or 20 cars at the same time?
They can get lucky with one car only.
But it is OK if you like taking a risk.

True, they could have been lucky. And just as likely that the single Tiguan gearbox failure can be classed as unlucky ....... it happens.

APR at any moment has at least 4 different cars from the VAG stable as test mules (currently 1 Porsche, 1 Audi, 1 Skoda and 2 VWs), all heavily modified and most frequently driven by customers with little mechanical sympathy. I do not know of any major mechanical failures in the last few years, so on average I'd say cars from VAG group can take a fair bit of punishement before suffering catastrophic failure.

You would be unlucky to break a major component such as a gearbox etc .... it happens (and has happened to members on this forum and on perfectly standard cars) but you can call yourself unlucky if it did.

You would be no more exposed to major component failure if you did modifications within reasonable limits than if your car was standard.