Razor80 Stage 3 Allspace R Build

[tigger73]

Wow 400kw's thats some serious grunt. I've already contacted the Melbourne team for Etuners and checked out their website. Just wait on another quotation from the 3 ive found and decide. Will most likely still go with stage 2 and edging closer to IS38

The cost to go stage 2 for the power gains with the stock turbo is just not worth it.

Either go stage 1 or pay a bit more and do an IS38 swap. The difference between stage 2 and upgrading the turbo is 30-40kwaw.

My suggestion is if you don’t have the budget for it right now go stage 1 and then in 6 months put the turbo (and DP) on and experience another boost in performance.

You may find that stage 1 is enough... but you also may get used to it and want more [emoji87][emoji85][emoji86][emoji13]


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[tigger73]

Apprecate both your comments Beedub & tigger73, it's good to know the this gearbox is built tough.
The reasoning I was worried before purchasing my car and after driving was from my wife's cousin's (old race drivers and still car fanatic's) in Singapore advised that they had numerous issue's with the DSG gearboxes over there always failing. Either seizing or gears slipping on upward or downward shifting. I had to convince them that this is the newer gearbox and those issue have been resolved from my prior investigations. It turned out that in Singapore, VW mate there older running gear to newer more powerful engines (quite common) and were causing major rebuild issues. Also they thought this could be the high humidity causing condensation. So this got me questioning myself, is the newer DQ500 going to be the same...

Just out of curiosity - How much torque can it handle?

The main problems are with the low torque “dry” 7 speed DQ200 gearbox in the lower end Golf/Passat/Jetta passenger cars. These are for the low torque petrol motors and have been problematic especially the early ones pre 2012.

It’s a different gearbox to the 7 speed in the Tiguan which is DQ500 and rated to 600Nm.


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[Razor80]

The cost to go stage 2 for the power gains with the stock turbo is just not worth it.

Either go stage 1 or pay a bit more and do an IS38 swap. The difference between stage 2 and upgrading the turbo is 30-40kwaw.

My suggestion is if you don’t have the budget for it right now go stage 1 and then in 6 months put the turbo (and DP) on and experience another boost in performance.

You may find that stage 1 is enough... but you also may get used to it and want more [emoji87][emoji85][emoji86][emoji13]


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So its better to the tune, downpipe & turbo? Won't I need better induction aswell and DSG tune? Could I use the Borg Warner K04 if I'm not chasing too much power? I want some fun but with the eception that it's a daily car with some stop starts and freeway driving.

[tigger73]

So its better to the tune, downpipe & turbo? Won't I need better induction aswell and DSG tune? Could I use the Borg Warner K04 if I'm not chasing too much power? I want some fun but with the eception that it's a daily car with some stop starts and freeway driving.

It depends on your budget but if you’re going to pull the DP out you’re best off changing turbo at the same time otherwise you’ll be up for the labour cost twice to do it later.

K04 is not direct bolt on. You need to go with an IS38 as all the oil lines etc are a direct bolt on fitment so install cost is less.

You can modify the stock intake by removing the snow grate and cutting the inlets out plus installing a high flow panel filter which is enough for stage 2+

I would recommend a DSG tune to anyone for improved drive ability.


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[Razor80]

It depends on your budget but if you’re going to pull the DP out you’re best off changing turbo at the same time otherwise you’ll be up for the labour cost twice to do it later.

K04 is not direct bolt on. You need to go with an IS38 as all the oil lines etc are a direct bolt on fitment so install cost is less.

You can modify the stock intake by removing the snow grate and cutting the inlets out plus installing a high flow panel filter which is enough for stage 2+

I would recommend a DSG tune to anyone for improved drive ability.


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This makes sence to do this option then spending extra $$$ on labour costs. IS38 it is then. I do the odd snow trip so may need the snow grete. Would the standard box and high flow filter be sufficient fir that turbo? Would the standard fuel system be sufficient also?

[tigger73]

This makes sence to do this option then spending extra $$$ on labour costs. IS38 it is then. I do the odd snow trip so may need the snow grete. Would the standard box and high flow filter be sufficient fir that turbo? Would the standard fuel system be sufficient also?

Standard fuel system will be fine. Just stick the snow grate back in when you go to the snow - it takes literally 2 minutes.

[Razor80]

Howabout the turbo flutter (love that sound)? Not too fussed with the BOV tisss sound, I'm far from my 20's to show that off lol
Would I need an bigger cooler at all or the standard works just as well except in the hotter months I'm guessing?

I've checked out your build on your Sportline - Pretty impressive mods you've done to your Tiggy! What sort of power are you chasing or wanting to achieve? Could you give me a rough base price on what I need so I can budget for it? PM me if need be?
I like the look of your wheels, did you notice the extra grip from the 20x9's and was there any rubbings on the arch or suspension?

[Simonr23]

Ooh, the wheel question has stumbled in to my area of expertise

It can get very (very) boring, but the short version is that bigger diameter rims are about visual appeal. Almost always there is a grip deficit vs smaller.

Weight and it’s related negatives (unsprung mass, centripetal forces) the thinner sidewalls of the tyres equal less grip.

On the smoothest racetrack and with the perfectly matched tyres to it (and the weather at the time) can give a more consistent ‘feel’- but not outright grip.

Larger circumference tyres though, will often improve peak grip(longitudinal traction(accel/braking), moreso than lateral), but again, the extra weight can negate some of the handling benefit.

Wider tyres can often improve peak grip, but may also cause an increase to the sudden loss of grip- once the tyre has crossed its grip threshold (snap oversteer/understeer and skidding(abs activation) or aquaplaning) due to decreased pressure on the (now larger) contact patch.

[tigger73]

Howabout the turbo flutter (love that sound)?

You’ll want a more open intake to get turbo whoosh and flutter noises. A pod filter with a cover generally achieves this. R600 is a fully enclosed intake and is quieter which is what I’m running.

Would I need an bigger cooler at all or the standard works just as well except in the hotter months I'm guessing?

The benefits of a bigger intercooler are lower intake temps and a lower pressure drop. However if you go too big you’ll get a drop in performance if you have too large a volume as it takes longer to build boost - so it’s a trade-off.

Generally the stock intercooler is ok to stage 2 but after that you’ll need/want to upgrade. If you’re doing an IS38 swap then I’d at least look at upgrading to a Golf R intercooler as I’m pretty sure this have a thicker core.

I've checked out your build on your Sportline - Pretty impressive mods you've done to your Tiggy! What sort of power are you chasing or wanting to achieve?

I’m looking at around 250kwaw and 0-100 in the high 3’s. But I also want it to be a nice daily driver so drive ability comes first before outright numbers.

Could you give me a rough base price on what I need so I can budget for it? PM me if need be?

Intake - $700-$1,000
DP - $800-$1,000
Turbo - $1,500-$5,000 (IS38 vs TTE475)
Intercooler- $1,500
Turbo inlet- $250
Turbo muffler delete - $250
Installation - $1,00-2,000
Tuning - $1,500-$2,000

I like the look of your wheels, did you notice the extra grip from the 20x9's and was there any rubbings on the arch or suspension?

I moved the stock tyres over and didn’t upgrade the rubber but plans are to run 255/40R20 next set which is same spec as R-line. I’m currently on 235/45R20 which was standard for Sportline.

[Razor80]

Ooh, the wheel question has stumbled in to my area of expertise

It can get very (very) boring, but the short version is that bigger diameter rims are about visual appeal. Almost always there is a grip deficit vs smaller.

Weight and it’s related negatives (unsprung mass, centripetal forces) the thinner sidewalls of the tyres equal less grip.

On the smoothest racetrack and with the perfectly matched tyres to it (and the weather at the time) can give a more consistent ‘feel’- but not outright grip.

Larger circumference tyres though, will often improve peak grip(longitudinal traction(accel/braking), moreso than lateral), but again, the extra weight can negate some of the handling benefit.

Wider tyres can often improve peak grip, but may also cause an increase to the sudden loss of grip- once the tyre has crossed its grip threshold (snap oversteer/understeer and skidding(abs activation) or aquaplaning) due to decreased pressure on the (now larger) contact patch.

Thanks for that Simonr23, that is a really informed description but it kinda makes sense, I think lol
I'm looking at changing the R-Line wheels as 1. they weigh 30kgs each and 2. they somehow quite brittle.
I had to drive through resurfacing works and the two passengers side wheels chipped on the rim! VW want $1500 each for these, which is ridiculous!!! I know I can get them repaired but what's stopping it from happening again. So I figured I'll changed the whole set to aftermarket and if it happened it'll most likely won't cost $1500 each.

I know my tyres are 255/40R20, if went the wheel size like tigger73's wheels 20x9 and got say a 275/40R20 there wouldn't be much overall grip as such + unsafe at higher speeds?
Would staying with the same sized wheels 20x8.5, I think (R-Line) and run a higher 45 or 55 wall tyre be more beneficial, also without altering the speedo much? Would in turn give me greater comfort and clearance but lower higher grip and more tyre flex into corners?

[Razor80]

You’ll want a more open intake to get turbo whoosh and flutter noises. A pod filter with a cover generally achieves this. R600 is a fully enclosed intake and is quieter which is what I’m running.

Ok I will try this out but no doubt tuner would suggest otherwise im guessing. What panel filter do you suggest like a K&N or something?

The benefits of a bigger intercooler are lower intake temps and a lower pressure drop. However if you go too big you’ll get a drop in performance if you have too large a volume as it takes longer to build boost - so it’s a trade-off.

Generally the stock intercooler is ok to stage 2 but after that you’ll need/want to upgrade. If you’re doing an IS38 swap then I’d at least look at upgrading to a Golf R intercooler as I’m pretty sure this have a thicker core.

Would this also be depending on the amount of boost, so since this is my daily family/work car, running it at a lower economical would be effective with just the standard? Well until I chase more power and so on...

I’m looking at around 250kwaw and 0-100 in the high 3’s. But I also want it to be a nice daily driver so drive ability comes first before outright numbers.

That's pretty decent figures and should be easily achievable with the mods you have. What fuel economy like per tank since the new spec from standard?

Intake - $700-$1,000
DP - $800-$1,000
Turbo - $1,500-$5,000 (IS38 vs TTE475)
Intercooler- $1,500
Turbo inlet- $250
Turbo muffler delete - $250
Installation - $1,00-2,000
Tuning - $1,500-$2,000

This is still is slightly over my budget but may be able to work with those figures a little, just don't tell the wife!!!

Where did you find the turbo at $1500 +, cheapest I can find with one the tuners is $3250 for the IS38/460?

I moved the stock tyres over and didn’t upgrade the rubber but plans are to run 255/40R20 next set which is same spec as R-line. I’m currently on 235/45R20 which was standard for Sportline.

I have replied to Simonr23's response above but how has the drivability been with the 235's?

[Beedub]

Where did you find the turbo at $1500 +, cheapest I can find with one the tuners is $3250 for the IS38/460?

You can get a new one, revision F, from the U.S. with some change out of $2K (not including shipping, and GST).
Genuine Volkswagen Audi - 06K145874F - IS38 Turbocharger (06K 145 874 F)

[Razor80]

Cheers for that Beedub - Intesting how cheap the parts are everywhere but here in Oz. I guess you pay the price if there was anything wrong with before fitting to have to return to sender for a warranty etc

[Simonr23]

275 isn’t a massive change from 255, so for safety, you’ll be fine

Unless you’re pushing the car, or come across an unfortunate series of circumstances that lead you to actually maximise the cars grip, my above post isn’t ‘real world’ relevant- for the most part.

without knowing the answers for a tiguan, 275mm maybe pushing the limits of space for lock-stops and brake lines and what-not back there- especially when it comes to the new rims you buy.
You’re supposed to keep the same offset, when changing, so be aware of what you’ve got currently (tigger will know) to make an educated decision.

You come across as someone who is intelligent and switched-on, so as long as you don’t instantly/blindly believe what any sales people tell you, you’ll come out very happy. Tyres/engine/the lot

[Ozsko]

Big wheels have increased unsprung weight to absurd levels and that is the main reason modern cars are so stiffly sprung. The lower profile tyres do give a stiffer wall which can respond faster for a more positive steering response but apart from looks (debatable) they aren't much good for anything else except emptying your pocket quicker at a new tyre time. My one objection the R Line Tiguan was the big wheels but try explaining that to a car salesman, they look at you like you are a two headed monster. Simon has summed it up pretty well I think.