APR Tune - 162TSI - worth every $$

[Melbourne_Tiggy]

1) What kW & Nm increase do you get above the standard Tiguan Highline 162kW & 350Nm with the APR Stage 1 ECU Flash ?

2) Is there any mechanical difference between the Golf GTI 162 kW vs Golf GTI 180 kW engines or is the kW / Nm increase just from Tuning/Flashing-ECU ?

1) Stage 1 98 RON tune - peak power and TQ is 235kw & 516nm

APR stage 1 dyno and ECU data

2) not sure about this one, I’ll let someone else chime in.

[FastMitch]

1) Stage 1 98 RON tune - peak power and TQ is 235kw & 516nm

APR stage 1 dyno and ECU data

Wow ... a 73 kW and 166 Nm increase just from a ECU chip mod with no hardware changes, i am impressed !

Now I understand why people are getting this done.

If VW can get this power out of the same engine, why does VW limit it to 162 kW / 350 Nm ?

[Melbourne_Tiggy]

Wow ... a 73 kW and 166 Nm increase just from a ECU chip mod with no hardware changes, i am impressed !

Now I understand why people are getting this done.

If VW can get this power out of the same engine, why does VW limit it to 162 kW / 350 Nm ?

Some thoughts-
-Reliability and durability of the engine for warranty purposes. The engine has engineered tolerances for its internals, tuning a car and frequently driving it to its limits will see increased wear and greater risk of engine failure. Not good for the VW brand.
-Different climates, hotter climates like AU will be typically detuned compared to colder European climates. There are also quite strict emissions and fuel consumption regulation that influence engine tuning.
-Product differentiation, they sell a GTI and R with 2 litre turbo engines, if the power in the GTI was the same as/more than the R it wouldn’t be good product differentiation

[tigger73]

Went back to this thread and it suggests the detection is around foreign software on the ecu and if it is flashed back to stock (i.e. not simply running a stock mode under tuning software) then a previous tune wouldn't be detected. Can anyone verify this?

Yes there are ways for VW to detect if the car has been tuned even with a "return to stock" reflash. VW won't tell you how they detect a tune as then the tuners will just implement a work-around. Though there are several ways to do it - looking at the flash counter for one. Second looking at stored parameters for maximum power and torque and if they are outside "normal" ranges then this is a good indication that the car has either been tuned or has run a tuning box.

Most tuners won't claim that their software is "undetectable". Even if one month the car isn't detected, if VW change their software and use other detection measures then it might flag up in the future.

Simple thing is if you tune then expect that your car will get flagged so don't take your car near a dealership unless you absolutely need to for warranty work. It's not worth the risk and there are good independent workshops around that will maintain your car without having to take it back to your tuner for a reflash each time.

[OZROD]

Still impressive though - that's a lot of hobbling that VW do for a bit of product differentiation!

[tigger73]

2) Is there any mechanical difference between the Golf GTI 162 kW vs Golf GTI 180 kW engines or is the kW / Nm increase just from Tuning/Flashing-ECU ?

I'm pretty sure this is just software.

[tigger73]

Still impressive though - that's a lot of hobbling that VW do for a bit of product differentiation!

There are mechanical differences between the GTI and R - turbo being a large difference for starters.

But yes GTI vs. GTI-PP they make some good money on selling a higher spec tune for their own cars. Same thing in gen1 Tig.... good thing about buying the base model if you tune it you can get some very good gains.

[FastMitch]

1) Stage 1 98 RON tune - peak power and TQ is 235kw & 516nm

APR stage 1 dyno and ECU data

With a Stage 1 ECU Flash, what is the sec reduction in 0-100 km/h for the Tiguan Highline (if the base 0-100 km/h is 6.5 sec) ?

[Melbourne_Tiggy]

With a Stage 1 ECU Flash, what is the sec reduction in 0-100 km/h for the Tiguan Highline (if the base 0-100 km/h is 6.5 sec) ?

I recall my vbox run for stage 1 was 5.4s using launch control (the road had quite a bit of sand, so wasn’t the best conditions). There are other APR stage 1 Tiguan 162 TSI that have gotten 5s flat.....

[FastMitch]

I recall my vbox run for stage 1 was 5.4s using launch control (the road had quite a bit of sand, so wasn’t the best conditions). There are other APR stage 1 Tiguan 162 TSI that have gotten 5s flat.....

A 1.5 sec improvement in 0-100 km/h is impressive for no hardware changes

What is the difference between an ECU Flash and a Tuning Box ? Do they provide the same kW / Nm increase ?

Is a Tuning Box harder to detect than an ECU Flash by the VW Dealership ?

[Melbourne_Tiggy]

A 1.5 sec improvement in 0-100 km/h is impressive for no hardware changes

What is the difference between an ECU Flash and a Tuning Box ? Do they provide the same kW / Nm increase ?

Is a Tuning Box harder to detect than an ECU Flash by the VW Dealership ?

ECU is the computer on your car- a flash / tune changes the code to enhance the performance of the engine. This is done be either removing the ECU and bench tuning or via the OBD port of your car. There are no permanent physical connections to your engine.

A Tuning box is a permanent physical device that connects to sensors on your car, and basically cheats the ECU to produce more power/torque.

This last point around detection is controversial and subject to great debate. In my humble opinion, there is a risk that both could be detected. If you are concerned about warranty perhaps wait until after your first service/12 months to see whether any mechanical or electrical faults appear. This reduces, but does eliminate the risk of unwarrantied engine/driveline failure. There is huge enjoyment with a more performance orientated Tiguan. I have surprised many unsuspecting sports cars and it gives me great satisfaction seeing the look of shock on their faces when they look across and they’re not pulling away. It really is a risk/reward decision.

[tigger73]

A 1.5 sec improvement in 0-100 km/h is impressive for no hardware changes

What is the difference between an ECU Flash and a Tuning Box ? Do they provide the same kW / Nm increase ?

Is a Tuning Box harder to detect than an ECU Flash by the VW Dealership ?

The JB4 tuning boxes get a decent improvement but it’s not to the same level as a flash tune.

It’s not guaranteed that these can’t be detected but if you physically remove it before taking to a dealership then there’s less chance.

The good thing about timing boxes is that you can sell them after and get some of your $ back whereas flash tune stats with the car.

At the end of the day the tuning box is fundamentally limited in what it can do as it is the standard ECU program that is running and it’s just tricking it by changing the parameters being sent to it.

In terms of total cost they are a reasonable alternative. The JB4 can be customised for hardware by dyno tuning but then if you have to take your car in for warranty are you going to remove the hardware also???


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[HPRS230]

I've got a JB4 on my Skoda (ea888 with is20).

Its great to start with and the pre set maps add 20-30 wheel kw (fwd). It is also good if your a data type of person and like the fine tune the settings as you can make a custom map, which entails making a boost curve and then logging it to make sure the car is happy (fueling and afr etc).

I've made many custom maps along the way as I bolts on new parts.

I take my JB4 off for services but I leave all the performance hardware on (intake bits, dog bone, downpipe, rear sway bar and not new smf clutch kit).

JB4 is a great tool but can't add the extra fueling a real tune does, and uses the stock timing.

Mate has a is38 on his car and JB4 is making 250kw @ the wheels (fwd).

Just remember there are pros and cons to both piggy back and real tunes.

Set and forget = get a tune or use a preset JB4 map
If you like to play and read data to make your car better = JB4

2psi extra boost wakes these motors up


Skoda RS230

[LJ1981]

I’m new to VW but I’ve been reading a lot about modifying them, came across interesting build from back home (Serbia)
Skoda Octavia RS 230, pretty much turbocharger from mk7 golf R, bigger inter cooler, R600 intake, down pipe and full exhaust, Revo stage3 tune and DSG stage2 tune resulting in 400hp@wheels with pretty good performance results

Vbox Sport Race Logic results
0-100km/h: 5,0 sec
100-200km/h: 8,7 sec
0-200km/h: 13,7 sec

My question is would be hard to get golf R turbocharger, how much would they cost, apperantly this build didn’t cost too much, are these results good??

[Melbourne_Tiggy]

I’m new to VW but I’ve been reading a lot about modifying them, came across interesting build from back home (Serbia)
Skoda Octavia RS 230, pretty much turbocharger from mk7 golf R, bigger inter cooler, R600 intake, down pipe and full exhaust, Revo stage3 tune and DSG stage2 tune resulting in 400hp@wheels with pretty good performance results

Vbox Sport Race Logic results
0-100km/h: 5,0 sec
100-200km/h: 8,7 sec
0-200km/h: 13,7 sec

My question is would be hard to get golf R turbocharger, how much would they cost, apperantly this build didn’t cost too much, are these results good??

There is a specific build thread for Tiguan turbo swaps including upgrading to the golf r turbo. Search for “Tiguan IS38 and big turbo swaps” thread.

In short, you can get a very good performance increase similar to the Skoda above in terms of Tiguan IS38 power. I have vboxed my ITiguan and achieved 4.1s 0-100 km/h on vbox. The Skoda is disadvantaged by front wheel drive for 0-100km/h, poor traction compared to AWD Tig. However, the Skoda with FWD is an advantage on the 100-200km/h roll, judging by its sub 10s it will prob beat an OEM IS38 Tig on this measure.