#%!@*^# Turbo lag.

[adrianb]

You can't 'pre-load' a turbo; it's spun using exhaust exiting the engine; having enough exhaust exiting to spin the turbo requires engine revs.

The difference between economy/normal/sport mode is mostly about how the gearbox behaves and how long it holds each gear before shifting. This absolutely makes it more likely to put you in a situation where you get turbo lag. In economy mode it will shift up gears earlier (i.e. at lower revs), which puts you in your next gear at lower revs which means less exhaust which means less boost which means considerably less power.

No doubt that the DSG and it's characteristics could make this feel worse in situations others have described above where the gearbox is caught in the wrong gear.

It's probably not the answer most people want to hear (it certainly wasn't when I tried to explain it to my wife!) but you need to drive to the car you have and the conditions you're in. If you've got a turbo, expect lag and slower throttle response. If you've got a DSG, be vaguely aware that it's trying to guess your next move based on brake/throttle position and the speed you're doing.

Pretty much worst case scenario here is what was described above - coming into a roundabout with your foot off the throttle and getting into the brakes. The car will think you're pulling up to stop and is going to be changing down and getting ready to stick you in first gear to take off again, but then you hit the gas when you see a gap. You expect instant acceleration but you're at low engine revs with no boost coming from the turbo plus waiting for the gearbox to realise you want to go faster instead of slowing down. It's gonna feel pretty dead for a second or so while revs build up and the gearbox sorts itself out - that feels like the worlds slowest ever butt-clenching second when there's a guy coming into the roundabout on your right hand side and you're like a deer in headlights.

If you give the gearbox half a chance to work out what you're doing in this situation by braking early then coasting in with some light acceleration you'd probably feel a world of difference. Either that, or use the flappy paddles to manually get yourself into the right gear to have a bit of acceleration through the roundabout and then switch you back to auto when you're done.

[Seanix]

You can't 'pre-load' a turbo; it's spun using exhaust exiting the engine; having enough exhaust exiting to spin the turbo requires engine revs.

The difference between economy/normal/sport mode is mostly about how the gearbox behaves and how long it holds each gear before shifting. This absolutely makes it more likely to put you in a situation where you get turbo lag. In economy mode it will shift up gears earlier (i.e. at lower revs), which puts you in your next gear at lower revs which means less exhaust which means less boost which means considerably less power.

No doubt that the DSG and it's characteristics could make this feel worse in situations others have described above where the gearbox is caught in the wrong gear.

It's probably not the answer most people want to hear (it certainly wasn't when I tried to explain it to my wife!) but you need to drive to the car you have and the conditions you're in. If you've got a turbo, expect lag and slower throttle response. If you've got a DSG, be vaguely aware that it's trying to guess your next move based on brake/throttle position and the speed you're doing.

Pretty much worst case scenario here is what was described above - coming into a roundabout with your foot off the throttle and getting into the brakes. The car will think you're pulling up to stop and is going to be changing down and getting ready to stick you in first gear to take off again, but then you hit the gas when you see a gap. You expect instant acceleration but you're at low engine revs with no boost coming from the turbo plus waiting for the gearbox to realise you want to go faster instead of slowing down. It's gonna feel pretty dead for a second or so while revs build up and the gearbox sorts itself out - that feels like the worlds slowest ever butt-clenching second when there's a guy coming into the roundabout on your right hand side and you're like a deer in headlights.

If you give the gearbox half a chance to work out what you're doing in this situation by braking early then coasting in with some light acceleration you'd probably feel a world of difference. Either that, or use the flappy paddles to manually get yourself into the right gear to have a bit of acceleration through the roundabout and then switch you back to auto when you're done.

Brilliant. Couldn't have summed it up better.

[emoji106]



2016 RS3. 2015 A4

[Transporter]

Yes, great explanation. No auto transmission is perfect.
Just as good that there are the paddle shifters.

[TungstenR]

You can't 'pre-load' a turbo; it's spun using exhaust exiting the engine; having enough exhaust exiting to spin the turbo requires engine revs............

.........Either that, or use the flappy paddles to manually get yourself into the right gear to have a bit of acceleration through the roundabout and then switch you back to auto when you're done.

Cheers Adrian! I didn't literally mean a pre-load, but relatively compared to eco-mode. That's how it was explained to me. The flappy paddles, that's an interesting idea to try, but when I'm approaching a busy roundabout I'm busy watching the other cars, not checking what gear is engaged. For some reason in other cars (my previous car was an Audi S4 V8, so, without turbo) I would always feel, hear what gear I'm in.

Maybe I'll adapt to a different drive style, 'though I'm still thinking it's something of a design/engineering flaw.

[Bora Sport]

We had a 2007 Jetta TDI for 3 years and we’ve had a 2010 Jetta 125 TDI for 2 years and I’ve done 24,000 k’s in a 2011 Skoda Octavia Scout in the last 12 months and I’ve never experienced it either.

[Sydneykid]

After 3 x VW's and 7 years with DSG's I've experienced it once only. To me it feels like a combination of gearbox and engine, not just gearbox alone. What I have noticed is that the gearbox "learns" your driving style, and adapts to it. Which happens fairly quickly (minutes and hours not days and weeks). Plus with drive by wire throttle it also "learns" your accelerator usage pattern. So when you only use gentle and slow throttle applications it changes the ratio between how much the throttle pedal moves and how much the throttle body opens.

For example driving to work, which takes about an hour to travel 24 k's, the traffic is pretty heavy so I toad along, hardly any accelerator, slow throttle applications, auto stop/start on, in "normal" mode. The Polo starts off in 1st but changes to 2nd within a metre or so and it gets into 6th in rapid time. I have to squeeze the throttle quite a bit (lots of travel) to get much engine response.

On the way home the traffic is lighter and I can use a bit more accelerator, faster, which it learns fairly quickly and holds the lower gears longer, particularly 2nd. Plus the throttle response is noticeably more urgent. The next morning it starts off holding onto gears longer and being at bit more engine responsive, but within a few k's in learns and goes back to "dull".

In "Sport" mode it does similar but never quite gets to the "dull" stage, but it still "learns" the driving style.

In summary, what I think happens is that the gearbox and engine (throttle) working together "dull" the response to save fuel and reduce emissions based on recent driving patterns. Then when we we need more power, faster, with speedier response it needs to quickly "unlearn" and adjust to the new demands. This is not a DSG alone problem, I have experienced the same with automatics and drive by wire throttle with torque converters that are even "lazier". It's a factor of smaller engines, with forced induction, coupled with fuel economy measures and emissions requirements.

Cheers
Gary

[adrianb]

Cheers Adrian! I didn't literally mean a pre-load, but relatively compared to eco-mode. That's how it was explained to me. The flappy paddles, that's an interesting idea to try, but when I'm approaching a busy roundabout I'm busy watching the other cars, not checking what gear is engaged. For some reason in other cars (my previous car was an Audi S4 V8, so, without turbo) I would always feel, hear what gear I'm in.

Maybe I'll adapt to a different drive style, 'though I'm still thinking it's something of a design/engineering flaw.

A S4 V8 (bloody nice car!) would have tons of low-down torque on-tap so you're better off already and no turbo lag.

Completely agree with you - all this technology should be transparent and make life easier, not make you have to adjust to it! We haven't even gotten our Tiguan yet and when I tried to tell to my wife that her new Tiguan will have some 'peculiarities' she might want to think about, I got raised eyebrows and her saying 'i just want to drive it'.

My car is an XR8 Falcon with a supercharged 5.0L V8 with a 6sp manual so what gear I'm in is up to me and I work my way down through the gears (with lots of V8 rumbles, crackles and pops from the exhaust - music to the ears!) and like the 'connectedness' and control but acknowledge it's slower than a DSG shift. DSG is awesome tech but I guess it's not perfected yet.

[Sydneykid]

A S4 V8 (bloody nice car!) would have tons of low-down torque on-tap so you're better off already and no turbo lag.

Completely agree with you - all this technology should be transparent and make life easier, not make you have to adjust to it! We haven't even gotten our Tiguan yet and when I tried to tell to my wife that her new Tiguan will have some 'peculiarities' she might want to think about, I got raised eyebrows and her saying 'i just want to drive it'.

My car is an XR8 Falcon with a supercharged 5.0L V8 with a 6sp manual so what gear I'm in is up to me and I work my way down through the gears (with lots of V8 rumbles, crackles and pops from the exhaust - music to the ears!) and like the 'connectedness' and control but acknowledge it's slower than a DSG shift. DSG is awesome tech but I guess it's not perfected yet.

Dive an auto Falcon XR8 with drive by wire throttle and you will find it's just the same, DSG or not is pretty much irrelevant.
A DSG is just a manual without a clutch pedal, use the paddles and it is very connected with much better control than a sloppy gear stick that requires removing one hand off the steering wheel.

Cheers
Gary

[tomskiboy]

We experience Turbo Lag both in our old MT12 Passat 125TDI and our new MY18 Tiguan 140TDI RLine.

I agree that it really scares the heck out of me at roundabouts especially with sudden start stops.

I've somewhat have become accustomed to it by dropping into S mode before entering roundabouts (if I remember). The S engine and DSG mapping really help a lot. But you have to do it about 10 meters or so before the roundabout to allow the engine and gearbox to recalibrate. It can be fun at times as you feel like a manual driver (without the clutch peddle)

BTW I used to own an Automatic MY06 Subaru Liberty GT (Turbo 2.0 boxer 4 Cyl - for those that don't know the car). And it did exactly the same as well, again I learned to pop it down a gear when entering roundabouts as it would stay in a higher gear for too long.

[smarty]

We experience Turbo Lag both in our old MT12 Passat 125TDI and our new MY18 Tiguan 140TDI RLine.

I agree that it really scares the heck out of me at roundabouts especially with sudden start stops.

I've somewhat have become accustomed to it by dropping into S mode before entering roundabouts (if I remember). The S engine and DSG mapping really help a lot. But you have to do it about 10 meters or so before the roundabout to allow the engine and gearbox to recalibrate. It can be fun at times as you feel like a manual driver (without the clutch peddle)

BTW I used to own an Automatic MY06 Subaru Liberty GT (Turbo 2.0 boxer 4 Cyl - for those that don't know the car). And it did exactly the same as well, again I learned to pop it down a gear when entering roundabouts as it would stay in a higher gear for too long.

when you say drop into sport mode do you mean pressing the mode button and selecting sport? Or by knocking the dsg stick to the left and going into manual mode. Wouldn’t it be annoying pressing mode and then hitting the screen to get into sport on the approach of roundabouts?

[tomskiboy]

when you say drop into sport mode do you mean pressing the mode button and selecting sport? Or by knocking the dsg stick to the left and going into manual mode. Wouldn’t it be annoying pressing mode and then hitting the screen to get into sport on the approach of roundabouts?

No, In the Passat I pulled the gear stick down one notch into S mode. On the Tig it's easier as I just give a gentle quick tap towards me and it engages S mode. I just repeat the process to go back into D mode. I find the flappy paddles annoying as I'm right handed and prefer to downshift with my right and upshift with left. Unfortunately, the Tig is R+ and L- (I wish I could remap this - but that's a completely separate thread topic)

The button that you mention (which is the little button inside the terrain selector) enables full Sports mode which affects the dampeners, engine, and gearbox. This makes the car feel way too jerky for me around suburbia. Not bad for when I'm having some fun around bendy roads like Macquarie Pass south of Sydney or Bells Line of Road (West of Sydney).

[smarty]

i didn't know this! perfect! much easier to get into sports! thanks for the tip!!

[drivesafe]

Thanks Tom, I regularly have to drive from the Gold Coast up to Beechmont. I have driven up and down Macquarie Pass many, many time and the road to Beechmont is very similar, but narrower.


I use Sports mode when ever I drive up there but have never bothered to use it around the Gold Coast and we have HEEPS of roundabouts here so I am looking forward to doing as you suggested.


Thanks again for the tip.

[veew]

Try a Pedalbox if Sport mode is not adequate.

Accessories

In my Pedalbox thread (Pedalbox) I've copied a number of customer reports and most say its the best bang for buck mod they've done.

[TungstenR]

Interesting idea that Tom describes, shifting into S-mode shortly before approaching the roundabout, like getting ready, attack mode, for the roundabout... LOL

In the meantime I've had a discussion at the VW dealer, and I learned that they've had more complaints about similar issues with turbo-lag and/or the DSG automated gear change. I have an appointment for the next week to see if the software is failing as I also have "regular" messages about the assistants not working.