#%!@*^# Turbo lag.

[TungstenR]

After about 25,000 km with the 2017 VW Tiguan 2,0 TSI Hi-R-line, the one thing that annoys me the most is the turbo lag. Several times when driving onto a roundabout during heavy traffic, the car starts to move a bit (enough to actually be on the roundabout), then seems to almost stall, while the other traffic moves towards me, and other cars come dangerously close because of the turbo lag. I found this video from 2016, from our friendly Thomas.

[Transporter]

Hmm, annoying.
But, how was the road test car before you bought yours? Or is it something that just developed?

[TungstenR]

My car was the first series that entered the country, so I only tested the 2017 model Tiguan that the dealer(s) had available (with a lighter engine/transmission). Following the video and a response from Autogefühl, VW/Audi say that it's a matter of perception, meaning the dual-clutch would be shifting to make the operation faster. Seeing those cars coming towards me on the roundabout I think VW is making a marketing escape by stating it would be faster suggesting that the client would just think it would be slower...

DSG-gate? ...

Anyways, I've decided to bring it up as a serious issue with the VW/Audi dealer as it sometimes actually becomes dangerous.

[drivesafe]

Hi TungstanR and I think I have noticed a similar reaction with my Tiguan.

It is something that only occurs periodically and always when I have just about come to a stop but not actually stopped, and then accelerate ( or try to ).

I my case, it feels like when moving off from a stopped situation with the STOP/START activated, which I try to turn off every time I start the motor.

Anyway, it feels like the same sensation and as you posted, it is VERY annoying and somewhat dangerous, particularly as it only occurs now and again, so I am not prepared for it when it occurs.

NOTE, every time it does occur, the first thing I do is check that I have deactivated the STOP/START function.

Could the two be related?

[tigger73]

Not sure if this is exactly the same issue, however in my gen1 Tig I've experienced issues with the DSG in "D" when pulling off from low speed. The transmission short shifts from 1->2 and then will not shift back to 1st gear no matter how hard you hit the accelerator pedal. This is more of an issue rolling into an intersection or onto a round-about and then trying to get going quickly. If you're in 2nd gear and engine at 1,500 RPMs you will be off-boost and will not pick up until the revs get up to 1,700-1,800rpm.

This is a "quirk" of the DSG programming in "D" that it won't shift back to 1st gear until you come to a complete standstill. The only fix is to flick it into "S" mode if you're going to be needing instant acceleration or hit the paddle shifter to force it to 1st gear. Alternatively get an aftermarket DSG tune which fixes this problem.

[feenix74]

We found the same issue when we test drove a 2011 Caddy Maxi Life TDI DSG, it is really scary (especially bad here in Canberra because we have a "small" number of roundabouts to deal with).

The way I understand it is that the DSG "predicts" which gear that you need next and pre-selects it so that it has a very fast shift. However when it pre-selects the wrong gear then it takes a lot longer to get into the right gear. This works well in normal driving as it can predict the next gear you need but not so well at a roundabout because at a roundabout you are slowing down often to almost a stop (I assume the DSG predicts that you are going to stop completely, decides and pre-selects that you are going to need "gear 1" to take off from a stand-still) but then as you see the gap and you accelerate hard into it, the DSG is suddenly caught out having pre-selected the wrong gear (it probably needs "gear 2" give you the continued acceleration at the speed that you are still travelling) so then there is a lag when you hit the accelerator and it has to de-select "1" and re-select "2" before engaging it, it then launches into the gap because you have hit the accelerator harder in the meantime as the oncoming traffic in the roundabout starts to give you an almost brown underpants moment.

During our test drive both my wife and I experienced this a number of times. It was very disconcerting and we decided to stick with a manual when we bought our 2011 Caddy Life TDI. A decision we have not regretted, as a bonus we dodged the bullet of all the problems that the DQ200 dry clutch gear box offered for unsuspecting owners.

[Ozsko]

This exact thing can happen if the brake pedal is accidentally pushed even a little bit. I always left foot brake in an auto and I have accidentally touched the pedal with my left foot and instantly there is no power. My Skoda was the same, why it is like this is anyone's guess.

[Ozsko]

We found the same issue when we test drove a 2011 Caddy Maxi Life TDI DSG, it is really scary (especially bad here in Canberra because we have a "small" number of roundabouts to deal with).

The way I understand it is that the DSG "predicts" which gear that you need next and pre-selects it so that it has a very fast shift. However when it pre-selects the wrong gear then it takes a lot longer to get into the right gear. This works well in normal driving as it can predict the next gear you need but not so well at a roundabout because at a roundabout you are slowing down often to almost a stop (I assume the DSG predicts that you are going to stop completely, decides and pre-selects that you are going to need "gear 1" to take off from a stand-still) but then as you see the gap and you accelerate hard into it, the DSG is suddenly caught out having pre-selected the wrong gear (it probably needs "gear 2" give you the continued acceleration at the speed that you are still travelling) so then there is a lag when you hit the accelerator and it has to de-select "1" and re-select "2" before engaging it, it then launches into the gap because you have hit the accelerator harder in the meantime as the oncoming traffic in the roundabout starts to give you an almost brown underpants moment.

During our test drive both my wife and I experienced this a number of times. It was very disconcerting and we decided to stick with a manual when we bought our 2011 Caddy Life TDI. A decision we have not regretted, as a bonus we dodged the bullet of all the problems that the DQ200 dry clutch gear box offered for unsuspecting owners.

In hundreds of thousands of K's driving a DSG I have never experienced anything like that.

[tigger73]

During our test drive both my wife and I experienced this a number of times. It was very disconcerting and we decided to stick with a manual when we bought our 2011 Caddy Life TDI. A decision we have not regretted, as a bonus we dodged the bullet of all the problems that the DQ200 dry clutch gear box offered for unsuspecting owners.

The TDI's actually come with the higher torque DQ250 6 speed "wet" DSG. The Tiguan has the heavy duty 7 speed DQ500.

But all DSG gearboxes have similar software/behaviour. "D" mode is set up for economy which is why it short-shifts gears and won't drop back to 1st gear until you're stationary.

[feenix74]

Yep they do now. Back in 2011 the Caddy 1.6l TDI came with the 7-speed dry DSG. For a number of years, my independent specialist VW mechanic would question whether our Caddy Life was the DSG and sigh with relief when I said it was the manual, at first I did not understand why, then I found out and we realised just how lucky we were when we went with our gut feeling.

In hundreds of thousands of K's driving a DSG I have never experienced anything like that.

I am glad for you and I will defer to your greater experience. I can only speak from my one test drive experience with the DSG.

I must admit, I was convinced that I would adapt my driving style to the DSG and overcome the brown underpants moment (I assume driving it semi-auto instead of leaving it in D may overcome the problem) but my wife was not convinced. I did try to talk her into it, because I wanted the Caddy Maxi Life 2.0l TDI320 which only came with the DSG.

[spacemannz]

I also noted the behaviour in the test drive, and now about 1300km into ownership.
Definitely a small turbo lag on my 162TSI, but way better than my old Diesel auto Mondeo!
I was always taught to avoid putting a manual into first unless stationery... or at least nearly stationery. But I get the case where you’re pausing to look at a give way, or roundabout and you want it to drop to 1st, just before you lift off the brake and want to plant your foot to pull into a gap. It’s a bit of a nuisance that it bogs down in 2nd, particularly uphill.
Driving in sport mode is a distinct improvement - quite aggressive. I see why some fit a pedalbox to fix the throttle response.

On the whole, I’m thoroughly enjoying the drive, and am coming to grips with the characteristics of the DSG.

My question is; is there any downside to driving in Sport mode all the time? Apart from fuel economy.

[theresanothersteve]

This exact thing can happen if the brake pedal is accidentally pushed even a little bit. I always left foot brake in an auto and I have accidentally touched the pedal with my left foot and instantly there is no power. My Skoda was the same, why it is like this is anyone's guess.

They're designed that way. Some safety feature I guess. I believe it can be programmed out.

[theresanothersteve]

After about 25,000 km with the 2017 VW Tiguan 2,0 TSI Hi-R-line, the one thing that annoys me the most is the turbo lag. Several times when driving onto a roundabout during heavy traffic, the car starts to move a bit (enough to actually be on the roundabout), then seems to almost stall, while the other traffic moves towards me, and other cars come dangerously close because of the turbo lag...

Are we talking turbo lag or DSG lag?

I'm leaning towards DSG, if you are still moving, you are likely to be in second. Or third, but I'll base the guess on second. So the DSG has preloaded third, thinking that's your next gear. But if you put your foot down the DSG decides it has to select first, meaning it has to deselect third and load first. Hence lag, and then go.

With the Jetta (7 speed DSG) I'll push it into sport if I think something similar might happen. There are a couple of lights I go through (turning right) with an uphill grade straight after the turn. Selecting sport makes a huge difference, it holds the lower gears, meaning it doesn't get the next change wrong because it doesn't make it when I need the extra shove.

Of course, I'm blessed with the twin charged motor that generates torque from idle, part of the reason I bought the Jetta...

[ewok666]

They're designed that way. Some safety feature I guess. I believe it can be programmed out.

I doubt it but you CAN get a ECU tune (like APR) and that usually removes it and enables left foot braking. Check on goapr.com whether it does for the Tiguan.

[TungstenR]

To clarify the situation considering several of the responses: the issue is when I'm moving out of a full stop, like with the example mentioned: waiting at a busy roundabout to jump into a gap. I find myself cursing too often, and I'm not a cursing kind of guy. I mostly drive in eco-mode, with start-stop off, but I've also tried to see if there's a significant difference considering the lag in normal drive or sport mode, which I did not notice. I expected to find a difference in other than eco-modes because, if I remember well, the turbo is "pre-loaded" in at least sport-mode.

BTW, the reason I mostly drive in eco-mode is that engine/exhaust makes a deeper sound and shifts sooner with a bit of a crack/burb/fart, which doesn't seem to happen in the other modes. When you floor it it still gives you the (restricted) 162kw anyhow...