Golf 40th vs Golf R

[WhiteJames]

Predicted future resale values are a waste of time. Nobody knows where the market will be in the future & whether another GFK will cause VW to start dumping GTI's on the AUS market.

Some generalisations can be made, such as the Golf R being easier to sell come trade in time with added benefit of better resale value due to greater scarcity. It's like trying to pick the USA elections 3 years out ... Who would've had their money on Trump.

The basic standard GTI weighs in about 1326kgs. The Australian version of the PP GTI (ED40) comes in about 60kgs heavier (1380kgs). The PP GTI has a DSG (add 15-20kgs), trick LSD (add 32 kgs) bigger heavier wheels & brakes (no two piece aluminium brakes) and some extra bling.

A aftermarket LSD for my standard GTI would be easy to fit to a Manual Trans Gearbox and would add about 13-15kgs. Coilovers should be slightly lighter, and the two piece aluminium Alcon brakes much lighter than the standard PP GTI brakes.

1326kgs standard GTI + 10-15kgs at most = 1340kgs.
PP GTI = 1380kgs.

There's your 40 kgs difference. DSG ED40 would be no different to the PP GTI. 40 kgs on the track, esp over the front axle, would cause the tyres to go off more quickly after a series of laps.

WJ

[Bassik]

Golf 40th vs Golf R

There's no word of a lie that you can mod a car to personal specifications. That's an argument in itself. However, we are strictly speaking stock vs stock. You could easily mod a stock GTi PP to CS but the resale value wouldn't hold and you'd have a real hard time selling it. I recently did a Golf variant comparison with weight and general out of box stage 1.



Purely talking Bhp here, even a stock GTi would be the better option. This is basically the only mod I'd do but having said that I'd only do it out of warranty. So out of the GTi's the CS is the clear winner here. Even my mk6 is pretty on par with the CS regarding power 2 weight ratio.

ps: these are all dsg as well

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[ringo]

The basic standard GTI weighs in about 1326kgs. The Australian version of the PP GTI (ED40) comes in about 60kgs heavier (1380kgs). The PP GTI has a DSG (add 15-20kgs), trick LSD (add 32 kgs) bigger heavier wheels & brakes (no two piece aluminium brakes) and some extra bling.

A aftermarket LSD for my standard GTI would be easy to fit to a Manual Trans Gearbox and would add about 13-15kgs. Coilovers should be slightly lighter, and the two piece aluminium Alcon brakes much lighter than the standard PP GTI brakes.

1326kgs standard GTI + 10-15kgs at most = 1340kgs.
PP GTI = 1380kgs.

There's your 40 kgs difference. DSG ED40 would be no different to the PP GTI. 40 kgs on the track, esp over the front axle, would cause the tyres to go off more quickly after a series of laps.

WJ

Not sure where you getting those values from. These are the official unladen weights for a 3dr-manual according to VW UK and VW Germany:

GTI - 1351kg
GTI PP - 1382kg
Clubsport - 1375kg (7kg lighter than the PP)

Throw an aftermarket lsd on the GTI and there's less than 10kg of difference while still on stock suspension. That's hardly enough to make a difference on track. Then you have to go for bigger and lighter brakes, upgraded sway-bars, quality coilovers and together with the aftermarket LSD and all the installation cost, you've probably reached (if not exceeded) the cost of a Clubsport (comparing new to new). And you still won't have done anything for that 35-70 bhp deficit. Hence my bet on who'd be faster around a track would still be on the Clubsport.


Yet you can be sure that despite spending the same, the car will not sell as much as a Clubsport. I agree that you can't safely predict how much but since we're talking same generation GTIs after all, it is a simple demand and supply question. Anyone after a used GTI in 2-3 years will certainly look to snatch a Clubsport with the special looks, interior and better suspension and engine if financially possible, over a, by far, more common standard GTI, tuned or not by mr. x. Makes sense doesn't it?

[ringo]

There's no word of a lie that you can mod a car to personal specifications. That's an argument in itself. However, we are strictly speaking stock vs stock. You could easily mod a stock GTi PP to CS but the resale value wouldn't hold and you'd have a real hard time selling it. I recently did a Golf variant comparison with weight and general out of box stage 1.



Purely talking Bhp here, even a stock GTi would be the better option. This is basically the only mod I'd do but having said that I'd only do it out of warranty. So out of the GTi's the CS is the clear winner here. Even my mk6 is pretty on par with the CS regarding power 2 weight ratio.

ps: these are all dsg as well

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I see that Australia calculates weights differently but still the absolute weight difference between each version is the same with UK and Germany with one exception: The OZ Clubsport is 9kg heavier than the EU one and I think I know why: stock wheels.

18" Belvedere forged weigh in 7.6kg,
19" Brescias (OZ) weigh in 11.5kg,

That's actually 16kg in total (maybe some differences in stock OZ equipment reduces this to 9kg) but quite a difference in real feel given that it's almost 4kg of unsprung mass per corner!

[Bassik]

That's actually 16kg in total (maybe some differences in stock OZ equipment reduces this to 9kg) but quite a difference in real feel given that it's almost 4kg of unsprung mass per corner!

We don't get same seats (if yours are electric) and oh remember no ambient lighting so that's gotta be where all that weight reduction went haha


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[ringo]

We don't get same seats (if yours are electric) and oh remember no ambient lighting so that's gotta be where all that weight reduction went haha


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Clubsports don't get ambient lighting anywhere, unless specced with the full leather seats I think. Don't tell me that VW OZ has deleted the Recaro buckets from even being an option also??

[Bassik]

Golf 40th vs Golf R

Clubsports don't get ambient lighting anywhere, unless specced with the full leather seats I think. Don't tell me that VW OZ has deleted the Recaro buckets from even being an option also??

Mate the only option here in Oz is sunroof.

Check out Car Prices - Car Research - Search Car Prices & Values Online - RedBook.com.au for all specs on all Oz cars

There's a vid on YouTube of some guy reviewing the CS and it has electric seats (recaro) and ambient lighting.


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[Mattlock]

The bucket seats aren't even an option on the R.


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[ringo]

Mate the only option here in Oz is sunroof.

Check out Car Prices - Car Research - Search Car Prices & Values Online - RedBook.com.au for all specs on all Oz cars

There's a vid on YouTube of some guy reviewing the CS and it has electric seats (recaro) and ambient lighting.


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What??? No buckets??? I can't believe that... (I mean I believe you but...) These seats are probably half of what made the car stand out in my eyes design-wise... On the other hand, no buckets mean you get to keep your arm-rest and rear air/con (yep, gets deleted when adding the buckets in the EU, although a retro-fit is still possible).


On the lighting thing though I am sure there is no Recaro + Ambient lighting possibility, I am more than sure actually as I asked my salesman why I can't find the ambient lighting option after I've added the buckets and it's also been debated in German forums a lot, people are already looking into whether a retro-fit would be possible. It's not even there as an option so If you find that vid you say, I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

[ringo]

The bucket seats aren't even an option on the R.

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Yes and? The MK7 R never came with any bucket option anywhere.

The Clubsport being a special variant get special treats anyway (in other areas of the world at least, shame on you VW OZ)

https://www.recaro-automotive.com/en/product-areas/original-equipment/products/vw-golf-vii-clubsport/vw-golf-vii-clubsport.html

[Bassik]

What??? No buckets??? I can't believe that... (I mean I believe you but...) These seats are probably half of what made the car stand out in my eyes design-wise... On the other hand, no buckets mean you get to keep your arm-rest and rear air/con (yep, gets deleted when adding the buckets in the EU, although a retro-fit is still possible).


On the lighting thing though I am sure there is no Recaro + Ambient lighting possibility, I am more than sure actually as I asked my salesman why I can't find the ambient lighting option after I've added the buckets and it's also been debated in German forums a lot, people are already looking into whether a retro-fit would be possible. It's not even there as an option so If you find that vid you say, I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

At about 7 mins in. It has full leather option though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl0An-nrDag

[ringo]

At about 7 mins in. It has full leather option though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl0An-nrDag

Exactly. Full ambient lighting (door stripes + lower leds) in the Clubsport comes only with the leather seats. Explanation? none... Hopefully the guys from Germany will come up with a retro-fit guide, like they did with the arm-rest.

[AdamD]

GTi = Peugeot
GTI = VW



(Also, the 40th will be tuneable just like every other GTI/R out there. Should yield very similar power figures to the R as it's running the same turbo configuration.)

[SevenR]

off topic, but why was the GTI ever called that in the first place - It was never a 'grand tourer' in the true sense of the word was it?

[GeorgeMK1]

If I had the money, personally it's a no brainer for the GTI ED40. We just got one in our dealership 2 days ago and it looks absolutely stunning!!

The seats, the shifter boot, the red stitching on the seat belts (omgggg), the fantastic steering wheel, just the entire interior overall, the rear duckbill/spoiler, front splitter and all sorts of other little attributions. For me it's all about looks, as in Aus lets be honest you can buy a Ferrari and still be forced to drive the speed limit as the ford laser next to you. The GTI also has the more, authentic and pure feel to it. I don't know why I dislike the R so much, not even the leather interior or front DRLs interests me.

In terms of the fwd-awd debate going on here, I own an over-powered Honda crx race car, and I have left rwd and awd cars for dust at my track days and mountain runs.. it's all down to driver control I guess.