Golf 40th vs Golf R

[Bassik]

This highlights my point exactly regarding private sale of existing vehicle. Golf R takes a short time to sell. Golf GTI (regardless of which type) takes a lot longer to sell. Not sure about the S3 re: time to sell.

WJ

I think in this case the CS may be a league of its own.
It will really only appear to those car enthusiasts, people who know the car. Yes it is apart of the GTi group but if you look at the general public anyone looking for a Golf/GTi will probably go the PP or the standard model. If contemplating on CS, they would first go why so over priced?


The R is a clear stand out from the group it retains its mark as being the top of the line Golf.

It's a really hard market there's 4 different models of the Golf now all very tightly priced. VW might take some analysis on this down the track. Could be bad or good.



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[SevenR]

doesnt matter how good the fwd GTI varients are, most 'casual' performance hatch buyers will see fwd & think its only 1/2 a car.

[andrew7]

This highlights my point exactly regarding private sale of existing vehicle. Golf R takes a short time to sell. Golf GTI (regardless of which type) takes a lot longer to sell. Not sure about the S3 re: time to sell.

WJ

^ This. Sold my MK7 R wolf in 10 days and a good price (due to curse of the wastegate rattle!). My previous MK6 GTI took about 3-4 months and I had to chop a bit off my asking price. Maybe the 40th will do better as a special Ed (shame they couldn't give it the proper more convincing name of "Clubsport"- even that name alone would improve resale However, resale is only one of the factors in your purchase decision, go with your heart not your head IMO.

[Brian]

GTI 40 Years bang for your buck

I think in this case the CS may be a league of its own.
It will really only appear to those car enthusiasts, people who know the car. Yes it is apart of the GTi group but if you look at the general public anyone looking for a Golf/GTi will probably go the PP or the standard model. If contemplating on CS, they would first go why so over priced?


The R is a clear stand out from the group it retains its mark as being the top of the line Golf.

It's a really hard market there's 4 different models of the Golf now all very tightly priced. VW might take some analysis on this down the track. Could be bad or good.



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A number of posters in this thread are of the belief that the CS is "overpriced" or "not good value" or that the R is "a better option for not much more $".
I have drawn up a table with each of the "performance" golfs' cost and specs. In terms of $ per increase in direct power output, the CS costs 4 times less than the PP over the base and over 5 times less than the R over the CS.
Power to weight increase in dollar costs for the PP over base is 15 times more than the CS over the PP, and you actually get a DECREASE in P/Wt while spending another $6250 for the R.
In terms of cost per power per KG, the CS is a clear winner in terms of value for money, or "Bang for your Buck."

Note that the over-boost extra power of 17KW is not factored in, otherwise the overpriced R would not be on the same page. Other factors are not included such as AWD in favour of the R. Great if you want standing start races or racing with the ice road truckers. Dry track times, as posted in various articles on the forum are very close.
Personally, I'd like to see a 'ring contest with the same driver in a stock CS and R.
Extras included in the base price of the CS and the styling over its brothers are hard to quantify. But each has their own tastes and preferences, so you'll have to work out your own index for that, but you won't convince me that the CS isn't the best value for money.

[Bassik]

Golf 40th vs Golf R

^ This. Sold my MK7 R wolf in 10 days and a good price (due to curse of the wastegate rattle!). My previous MK6 GTI took about 3-4 months and I had to chop a bit off my asking price. Maybe the 40th will do better as a special Ed (shame they couldn't give it the proper more convincing name of "Clubsport"- even that name alone would improve resale However, resale is only one of the factors in your purchase decision, go with your heart not your head IMO.

And going with my heart, I am.

Good news,
I have finally driven the Clubsport ED and I must say "WOW" it's a great car. I can truly see what all the fuss is about, it's nimble, fast, agile and "sporty". It has a real nice pop sound and even changing 2-3 gear and corning well it's fantastic. It really is a sweet spot in the GTi range. I had the car on my own for about 30 mins and did I throw it around. Most people would probably just go for the PP variant however for all those guys wanting something a little more than your standard Golf GTi this is the one to choose. For me it was very close to my current car only daily driving terms but was fun to drive even like my old Polo.

HOWEVER,
Now for the bad news. 4 days ago I had my salesman call me asking for my finally decision, I told him I wouldn't be signing anything until I drove it, he couldn't make that happen and said I'll give you till COB Wednesday then the car is back on the market. I called him back on Wednesday and said I'm taking another one for a test drive today so I'll be calling you tomorrow and letting you know my decision. He then said ok I'll leave it open as I'm not back at work till Friday anyways. Me thinking, I wont call till Friday I should be ok. Well found out today that he had already told the guys back at the dealership on Tuesday to put it back on market COB Wednesday. It is for that reason my car has now been sold today to someone else. Now I'm not particularly annoyed by this because my heart still kinda lies with the R and as I mentioned a few posts back I'm a true believer in fate and I believe this may have been a calling. Weird yes I know but rather than sit on the fence buying something not being 100% sure (even after driving) this has pretty much sealed the deal. As my partner keeps telling me I know you loved the car but is it really $55k better than what I already have? And the answer is no. Am I sad? Yes, am I pee'd off? Yes, will I get over it? Yes.

I'm now just going to sit and wait for a second hand Golf R without the rush or if by chance a Clubsport pops up I might take another stab. I wish the best to whoever the guy was that stole my Clubsport GTi...lol

On a good note though here is something I noticed on the Clubsport, check the pic out, there is that performance monitor on the media display, I wasn't sure if this was on the MY16. The one I drove must have been a MY17 version.

[ringo]

I think in this case the CS may be a league of its own.
It will really only appear to those car enthusiasts, people who know the car. Yes it is apart of the GTi group but if you look at the general public anyone looking for a Golf/GTi will probably go the PP or the standard model. If contemplating on CS, they would first go why so over priced?

The R is a clear stand out from the group it retains its mark as being the top of the line Golf.

It's a really hard market there's 4 different models of the Golf now all very tightly priced. VW might take some analysis on this down the track. Could be bad or good.

Well I found out that to most of the people near me (family, friends, colleagues) the R certainly didn't look like a top of the line Golf. Rather it was something that I personally had to explain to them every time the discussion reached the how much it costs point... I had to be "listen it has 300bhp and AWD all right", and the reply was "oh really? ok" (still they were not that convinced). So it certainly didn't make the impression of the car it really is.

With the Clubsport on the other hand, I had a much easier time explaining why it is almost as expensive as the R (in fact 10%-15% cheaper than the R in Sweden), I actually didn't even get this question as soon as I showed them pics of the car and the interior. They were "oh yes it's a sports version right? I guess it must have what, 250+ bhp?" (Pretending to be well-informed all of a sudden )

Not that you should care much about what others think about your own car, but especially when it's new and the discussion comes to your newly acquired car, you might get a bit fed up by the public ignorance and the explaining of why it costs so much. You don't get that nearly as much with a car that makes a case for itself already by the looks, before entering technical details at all.

That been said, if you don't prefer the looks of the Clubsport more than the R, and you don't track or drive particularly hard your car as you said, I think the answer is clear, go for the R!

PS. Regarding the GF/wife opinion: None of the cars I would ever like to own (hypothetically) during different times were approved by the wife in terms of looks (Nissan GT-R, BMW M3, Audi RS6). With the Clubsport though she was ok! I guess it is as extreme as she can accept, and at the same time as understated as I could put up with. Win-win....

[xssiiv]

Golf 40th vs Golf R

[Bassik]

That been said, if you don't prefer the looks of the Clubsport more than the R, and you don't track or drive particularly hard your car as you said, I think the answer is clear, go for the R!

Oh by all means I don't think the Clubsport looks bad at all, I just think the R in terms of style looks more sophisticated. I do think if they shared the same interior/trims the R would have that sporty appeal. Realistically it just looks like a highline with blue needles. I do tend to drive my cars hard but as the years get on I find myself doing it less and less. A friend recently said to me if you want a car that sticks to the road, 4WD is probably a better option for you. That is what I get from the R.

Anyways I lost the CS so....we'll see.

[xssiiv]

Oh by all means I don't think the Clubsport looks bad at all, I just think the R in terms of style looks more sophisticated. I do think if they shared the same interior/trims the R would have that sporty appeal. Realistically it just looks like a highline with blue needles. I do tend to drive my cars hard but as the years get on I find myself doing it less and less. A friend recently said to me if you want a car that sticks to the road, 4WD is probably a better option for you. That is what I get from the R.

Anyways I lost the CS so....we'll see.

16 for sale on Carsales just in case you are still looking to secure one.

[Bassik]

16 for sale on Carsales just in case you are still looking to secure one.

Yeah one of which I test drove... seems like a crazy amount for a "hard to find Limited Edition" Golf.

[Billecartz]

This highlights my point exactly regarding private sale of existing vehicle. Golf R takes a short time to sell. Golf GTI (regardless of which type) takes a lot longer to sell. Not sure about the S3 re: time to sell.

WJ

White James, it was only because this car was so cheap not because it was an R.

The GTI is always at a cheaper price point and that is why there is more of them, therefore it sells equally as quickly as an R. If you know anything about Pareto this will be apparent.

Your statement that an R sells more quickly is flawed.

[ringo]

Oh by all means I don't think the Clubsport looks bad at all, I just think the R in terms of style looks more sophisticated. I do think if they shared the same interior/trims the R would have that sporty appeal. Realistically it just looks like a highline with blue needles. I do tend to drive my cars hard but as the years get on I find myself doing it less and less. A friend recently said to me if you want a car that sticks to the road, 4WD is probably a better option for you. That is what I get from the R. Anyways I lost the CS so....we'll see.

Again: Any car that you need to convince yourself about it, and that doesn't provide that "instant love" factor it's the wrong car. You seem to be after the extra confidence of 4WD and I guess there must be good reasons for that, so go for it!

I don't doubt what your friend said, it's what 9/10 random people asked in the street will tell you as well. Personally in my 20 years of driving I recall actually needing AWD just once in heavy snowfall, when the roads hadn't been cleaned early enough. Appropriate driving and tyres saw me through every winter without any issues. Traffic light racing always seemed stupid to me and un-necessarily stressful for the drivetrain. And what about corners?

I've driven hard enough cars of all 3 types (F-R-AWD), on track and back-roads, to realise that just AWD alone is good for traction but not for grip or agility around corners. Not every AWD system is a Quattro, especially VAG's Haldex implementation on transverse mounted engines with the lack of an open center diff. It certainly makes the car more usable on a slippery road but I've learned how to deal with throttle modulation on such conditions ages ago for it to be anywhere near a problem for me. Adding to that the extra cost and more importantly the extra weight makes it a choice I'd rather pass given my priorities.

This is also the reason why every track-focused FWD of today's (Megane, Type-R, Leon Cupra, GTI Clubsport) is around 20-30" faster on a track like the 'Ring than a Golf R or S3 (8:16" iirc? ) which to the average person's mind offer superior grip (guess again...)

Yeah one of which I test drove... seems like a crazy amount for a "hard to find Limited Edition" Golf.

It's normal for quite a few of them to be around right now as orders opened in April and they've only just recently started to hit the dealerships around the world. Makes sense for them to want to have a few ready to go when the right client steps in. Doesn't change the fact they will be much rarer in an ocean of GTIs and R's (especially the later).

[Bassik]

This is also the reason why every track-focused FWD of today's (Megane, Type-R, Leon Cupra, GTI Clubsport) is around 20-30" faster on a track like the 'Ring than a Golf R or S3 (8:16" iirc? ) which to the average person's mind offer superior grip (guess again...)

Think it was 8:14". That CS was the Clubsport S as well...@7:49"

Again: Any car that you need to convince yourself about it, and that doesn't provide that "instant love" factor it's the wrong car. You seem to be after the extra confidence of 4WD and I guess there must be good reasons for that, so go for it!

I don't doubt what your friend said, it's what 9/10 random people asked in the street will tell you as well. Personally in my 20 years of driving I recall actually needing AWD just once in heavy snowfall, when the roads hadn't been cleaned early enough. Appropriate driving and tyres saw me through every winter without any issues. Traffic light racing always seemed stupid to me and un-necessarily stressful for the drivetrain. And what about corners?

I've driven hard enough cars of all 3 types (F-R-AWD), on track and back-roads, to realise that just AWD alone is good for traction but not for grip or agility around corners. Not every AWD system is a Quattro, especially VAG's Haldex implementation on transverse mounted engines with the lack of an open center diff. It certainly makes the car more usable on a slippery road but I've learned how to deal with throttle modulation on such conditions ages ago for it to be anywhere near a problem for me. Adding to that the extra cost and more importantly the extra weight makes it a choice I'd rather pass given my priorities.

It's normal for quite a few of them to be around right now as orders opened in April and they've only just recently started to hit the dealerships around the world. Makes sense for them to want to have a few ready to go when the right client steps in. Doesn't change the fact they will be much rarer in an ocean of GTIs and R's (especially the later).

I don't disagree with anything you say ringo , my heart isn't particularly set on either really I like both for different reasons, but when you factor in $ it does. A second hand R can be bought for under $50k where as the CS starts at $55k. Yes there is an element of "I want to be different" but there is a part of me that says 5 years from now how rare will this car be? I have the adidas MK6 and as it is still a LE Golf, it's much like the Wolfsburg of today and I still managed to buy one 3 yrs ago when it was released in 2011. Comparing the 35th ED to the CS could be like comparing the CS to the 45th ED so who knows...? I didn't "need" the car I just wanted it.

You say you've driven all types yet I've only ever driven FWD (SSS, 2 x Integra Type Rs, Polo Gti and now the Golf Gti). My Type R was by far my most loved car and I nearly cried seeing that go. So I kinda feel like a change. Granted tho if the CS was $45k I'd take it in a heart beat. $50k was really my limit but I budged because I just felt like I wanted this car so badly and I do but over the weeks I've probably just realised I can wait or get an R and the fact my car went to someone else I take that as a sign or let fate take its course.

[ringo]

Think it was 8:14". That CS was the Clubsport S as well...@7:49"



I don't disagree with anything you say ringo , my heart isn't particularly set on either really I like both for different reasons, but when you factor in $ it does. A second hand R can be bought for under $50k where as the CS starts at $55k. Yes there is an element of "I want to be different" but there is a part of me that says 5 years from now how rare will this car be? I have the adidas MK6 and as it is still a LE Golf, it's much like the Wolfsburg of today and I still managed to buy one 3 yrs ago when it was released in 2011. Comparing the 35th ED to the CS could be like comparing the CS to the 45th ED so who knows...? I didn't "need" the car I just wanted it.

You say you've driven all types yet I've only ever driven FWD (SSS, 2 x Integra Type Rs, Polo Gti and now the Golf Gti). My Type R was by far my most loved car and I nearly cried seeing that go. So I kinda feel like a change. Granted tho if the CS was $45k I'd take it in a heart beat. $50k was really my limit but I budged because I just felt like I wanted this car so badly and I do but over the weeks I've probably just realised I can wait or get an R and the fact my car went to someone else I take that as a sign or let fate take its course.

I think the standard Clubsport will lap it around as fast as the Cupra (7:58", given that they're identical cars mechanically. CS lacks the permanent 290 but wins on aero at high speeds which at the Nurburging is an important factor. Still no standard CS run though, pretty sure we'll see one soon. The only official CS laps I've seen so far is the Autobild's track test where the CS was 2" faster than the R on a 2minute lap.

I've said before the Clubsport is more different than previous ED's against their standard GTI equivalents simply because of the extended differences in both the interior and the exterior. It has enough bespoke parts to be considered a separate Golf variant and personally I consider it as such. For this, I don't think going by previous ED's is representative of how its future value will hold or how the demand for it will formulate. If VW didn't have to make a track-focused variant AND an ED at the same time, I think it would be more obvious.

I have to admit however, VW OZ stresses a lot more the ED aspect, rather than it being the most driving-focused Golf of the range, as is the case in the rest of the world. Going as far as re-badging it "40 years" instead of "Clubsport" is a proof and quite a big surprise for me. The OZ deletion of probably the most bespoke and attractive CS item: the Recaro bucket seats, and the super light-weight forged wheels plays down even more the car's sports character. I am not sure I would still go for it if I was buying in Australia, in fact I doubt it. So in the end I can't really blame some OZ buyers failing to see it as unique as it is in say a European market, and consequently failing to justify it over an R. I mean just this view is enough to make me jump in and drive it like a stole it:

[Bassik]

Golf 40th vs Golf R

I think the standard Clubsport will lap it around as fast as the Cupra (7:58", given that they're identical cars mechanically. CS lacks the permanent 290 but wins on aero at high speeds which at the Nurburging is an important factor. Still no standard CS run though, pretty sure we'll see one soon. The only official CS laps I've seen so far is the Autobild's track test where the CS was 2" faster than the R on a 2minute lap.

I've said before the Clubsport is more different than previous ED's against their standard GTI equivalents simply because of the extended differences in both the interior and the exterior. It has enough bespoke parts to be considered a separate Golf variant and personally I consider it as such. For this, I don't think going by previous ED's is representative of how its future value will hold or how the demand for it will formulate. If VW didn't have to make a track-focused variant AND an ED at the same time, I think it would be more obvious.

I have to admit however, VW OZ stresses a lot more the ED aspect, rather than it being the most driving-focused Golf of the range, as is the case in the rest of the world. Going as far as re-badging it "40 years" instead of "Clubsport" is a proof and quite a big surprise for me. The OZ deletion of probably the most bespoke and attractive CS item: the Recaro bucket seats, and the super light-weight forged wheels plays down even more the car's sports character. I am not sure I would still go for it if I was buying in Australia, in fact I doubt it. So in the end I can't really blame some OZ buyers failing to see it as unique as it is in say a European market, and consequently failing to justify it over an R. I mean just this view is enough to make me jump in and drive it like a stole it:

Oh yeah if here in Oz we got all the goodies you EU get, it's make it hard for me to pass. That view looks so sweet damn nice seats and really different to normal VW styling. They definitely wanted to make a statement with not even the CS alone but a CS S...lol they went nuts focusing on the GTi this GEN!

I must say and the guy I stole this off would probably give me kudos for posting but this R looks nice... Not that I'm competing or anything haha