Space Saver Wheel - Is my paranoia justified?

[brad]

I know you are joking because my neighbour is too thick to be able to use a computer & post on a forum.

Gutterings fine, eaves are a disgrace.

[darkfriend]

fitting a full-sized spare

I don't know what the mark 7 boot is like, but I put a full-sized spare in my 118TSI mark 6. You can look in the mark 6 forum in the 'How to' thread or follow this link:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f55/full-sized-spare-golf-mark-vi-61311.html

[DV52]

I don't know what the mark 7 boot is like, but I put a full-sized spare in my 118TSI mark 6. You can look in the mark 6 forum in the 'How to' thread or follow this link:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/...-vi-61311.html

Darkfriend. Had a squiz at your mods. Very neat indeed! It looks like you had to lift the floor position to accommodate the full size spare. The mk7 wheel well looks similar, but the boot floor has two positions. I'm hoping that I can just use the upper position, but it's not clear how thick you had to make the polystyrene sub-floor in your mod. Can you measure the distance from the bottom of the wheel well to the top of the polystyrene please so I can measure it on my car (please)

[midlifecrisis]

Great pics. Need to get my mk7 and do some measuring

[darkfriend]

Darkfriend. Had a squiz at your mods. Very neat indeed! It looks like you had to lift the floor position to accommodate the full size spare. The mk7 wheel well looks similar, but the boot floor has two positions. I'm hoping that I can just use the upper position, but it's not clear how thick you had to make the polystyrene sub-floor in your mod. Can you measure the distance from the bottom of the wheel well to the top of the polystyrene please so I can measure it on my car (please)

I think it mentions in that link during the description that the foam is 10cm thick. I've just checked it and it is! The total depth including the foam is 22cm. Hope that helps.

[Mountainman]

I have just tried the 16" wheel with 205/55 tyre on my mk7 and it doesn't fit in the spare well, not because of height (even a 225/45 tyre would fit) but because it won't fit under the rear plastic panel that juts out in to spare well that the narrow spacesaver sits under. Also measured the weight of the spacesaver at exactly 14kg where as the 205/55 16 on Toronto alloy weighs 18.5kg new (and 18.2kg with 32,000km wear on the tyre). so if you get a flat the spare will be travelling on the hatch floor above the spare well. And it's no use buying a full size spare as it will never fit in the spare well unless you really want to butcher the rear plastic panel.

[midlifecrisis]

I have just tried the 16" wheel with 205/55 tyre on my mk7 and it doesn't fit in the spare well, not because of height (even a 225/45 tyre would fit) but because it won't fit under the rear plastic panel that juts out in to spare well that the narrow spacesaver sits under. Also measured the weight of the spacesaver at exactly 14kg where as the 205/55 16 on Toronto alloy weighs 18.5kg new (and 18.2kg with 32,000km wear on the tyre). so if you get a flat the spare will be travelling on the hatch floor above the spare well. And it's no use buying a full size spare as it will never fit in the spare well unless you really want to butcher the rear plastic panel.

Yeah, dealer told me plastic will need to be trimmed to fit full sized spare. Then it should work.

[DV52]

Yeah, dealer told me plastic will need to be trimmed to fit full sized spare. Then it should work.

midlifecrisis: I had hoped that I could simply drop a full size spare into the wheel well. I based my hopes on the following bit that I read from the manual. You can see that the extract comes from page 319 from manual. It talks about stowing away the "removed" wheel in the wheel well. No mention of needing to butcher the plastic return on the rear of the back panel. This is getting more difficult!

[DV52]

If you'd read the manual properly you'd know that the space saver should only be fitted to the rear. Apologies if this has already been pointed out.

Brad: Galvanised into action by your suggestion that I hone-up my literacy skills (only joking), I went back to the trusty (and voluminous) tome that VW calls the "Owner's manual". I do like literature that is based on the credo that too much information is never enough!

Anyhow, I'm the first to admit that my experience and knowledge of space saver wheels is amateurish at best, but I'm keen to understand any limitations in the technology so that I use the wheel properly (and as I said in my previous reply, so that I don't stray into the dreaded "nood" territory - only joking again).

I think that I need your help some more. I've tried to find the limitation that you mentioned in your post (about only using a space saver on the front wheel) in the manual, but alas my efforts have been unsuccessful. It's entirely possible that it's mentioned in some obscure part of the manual that I haven't yet found. It's also entirely possible that my literacy skills have been found yet again to be deficient (English is not my first language).

I have been able to find the "warning" section for using the space saver wheel which I have copied below (it's from page 320). As you will read, whilst much of what is said has already been included in others reply to this thread, there is no mention of the front wheel limitation.

Is your contention that "space saver should only be fitted to the rear" a preference, or is it a limitation?

[RubAVeeDubDub]

I always wondered why people were so scared of space savers and then half the time they fit the cheapest tyres they can find to their wheels. Space savers are not the end of the world. They have been fitted to most of the cars of the last decade. Used by 10's of 1000s of drivers overseas without problems. They are TEMPORARY. Unless you're in the sticks, you can find a tyre shop pretty close by. If you do badly puncture a tyre and it can't be repaired then head off to your nearest wreckers and see if you can get a full size tyre for acheap.

Space savers will last fine if you use them responsibility. They are made for only about 50kms of usage.
I drove on a space saver rather briskly through the mountains and it held up fine. Wouldn't recommend doing it, but it won't send you spinning into a tree the minute you go over 80kms an hour.
Besides - how often do you get a puncture? I've been driving for 6 years and I only once needed to use a spare when I got distracted by a lovely lady walking past and smashed into a chicane.

If you're super concerned about a space saver and don't want to chop up your boot, then maybe consider getting a bottle of tyre foam. They basically fill the inside of the tyre with a foam and you can get where you need to. The ride quality is atrocious but far better than driving on a flat tyre and also expect some very unhappy tyre fitters who need to pick that crap off the wheel.

[DV52]

I always wondered why people were so scared of space savers and then half the time they fit the cheapest tyres they can find to their wheels.

They are made for only about 50kms of usage............

RubAVeeDubDub: You make some very good points - thanks. Whilst this thread has the teaser "Is my paranoia justified", my real reason for starting it was so that I could get first and second information about these tires. I've learn't much from the replies (thanks again to those that have posted replies), but I'm still stuck on the question of the front wheel limitation.

It's a deal-breaker for me because, if true, there is a 50% chance that the driver of my car will need to change multiple tires if a flat occurs. Yes, this probability needs to be multiplied by the chance of a flat occuring in the first place. However, without the resource of road assist, I'm not entirely sure that some of the drivers of my car can manage this (safely).


I find it difficult to believe that the good Burghers at VW would equip a car as good as a Golf mk7 with such a limitation. But if these limitation are ideed true, I want to make the decision to keep,or not to keep the space saver based on information, rather than based on my current dubious understanding of the topic (which I agree is just uninformed bias).

[adhock]

@ Mountainman: Not the case in the new wagons re plastic bits. Just a dirty great hole under the floor with skinny tyre at the bottom. Height is the only issue, and it looks to be deep enough to me. Just wish I'd been fast enough to suggest to dealer that he swap the full size 16" rim from the Mk6 wagon I traded (only a month's running on the tyre) for the new space saver as part of the changeover.

But one other thing - the Mk7 doesn't get the false flow / hidden compartment the mk6 had, even in highline form. Nuisance.

[brad]

B (about only using a space saver on the front wheel) in the manual,
Is your contention that "space saver should only be fitted to the rear" a preference, or is it a limitation?

Nothing about it in the Skoda manual either. I do recall it being in the manual for the 1998 Golf Cabrio I had. Maybe the "rules"have changed or maybe the Cabrio space saver was so ridiculously small. It was 80mm narrower than the tyres I had fitted but more importantly was significantly smaller in diameter.

Your call which end you put it on

They are made for only about 50kms of usage.

That's my daily 1-way commute.

Agree though - how many punctures do you get?

[Diesel_vert]

I've tried to find the limitation that you mentioned in your post (about only using a space saver on the front wheel) in the manual, but alas my efforts have been unsuccessful.

I have been able to find the "warning" section for using the space saver wheel which I have copied below (it's from page 320). As you will read, whilst much of what is said has already been included in others reply to this thread, there is no mention of the front wheel limitation.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]8001[/ATTACH]

I refer you to point number 4:

Never drive further than 200 km with a temporary spare if it is fitted to the drive axle.

Your particular Golf has a front wheel drive configuration, so any temporary spare (T-type or standard) should be fitted on the rear axle.

This is to ensure the vehicle's drivetrain isn't damaged from differences, even small ones, in the tyre's rolling circumference.

It is also another reason why the 80 km/h (50 mph) speed limit exists.

It's a deal-breaker for me because, if true, there is a 50% chance that the driver of my car will need to change multiple tires if a flat occurs.

The driver will need to perform no more than two tyre changes if the flat or damaged tyre happens to be on the driven axle (think about it).

If the driver is capable of changing a flat tyre once, they can do it twice.

Space savers... are made for only about 50kms of usage.

That's not entirely accurate.

Like any standard tyre, the distance one can travel with a T-type temporary tyre is only limited by its tread depth.

However, compared to standard tyres, T-type temporary tyres may have a softer tread compound and often have reduced tread depth from new, so expect a nominal tread life of 3000 km - but again, like any tyre, treadwear depends on many variables.

On the other hand, runflat tyres that have been completely deflated are limited to a distance of 80 km (50 miles) at a maximum speed of 80 km/h (50 mph) unless otherwise specified by the vehicle manufacturer. Runflat tyres are not fitted as standard on any production Golf.

Looked in the back of a Mk 7 wagon (which with some trepidation we bought 20 minutes later). Looks to be enough height to drop a full size spare in without lifting the load area floor. VW quoted nearly $1000 for an alloy rim and tire, or about $250 for steel rim and cheap tire.

If your vehicle is fitted with 7.0 J x 17 ET 49 wheels on 225/45 R17 tyres (which it is, since it's a Highline) then you'll need the exact same wheel and tyre assembly if you prefer not to be limited to 80 km/h while driving on the spare.

Just wish I'd been fast enough to suggest to dealer that he swap the full size 16" rim from the Mk6 wagon I traded (only a month's running on the tyre) for the new space saver as part of the changeover.

You'd still have been limited to 80 km/h, because the wheel and tyre assembly is not the same size as those fitted on your vehicle's axle.

[DV52]

I refer you to point number 4:



Your particular Golf has a front wheel drive configuration, so any temporary spare (T-type or standard) should be fitted on the rear axle.

This is to ensure the vehicle's drivetrain isn't damaged from differences, even small ones, in the tyre's rolling circumference.

It is also another reason why the 80 km/h (50 mph) speed limit exists.
.

f

Diesel_vert: thanks for the clarification. But my point (admittadly not made with sufficient clarity) is that the manual doesn't prohibit use of the spare on the front tire. It only says that you ought travel a distance of no more than 200 kms (as you have correctly emphasised). My concern was that there was a sleeper clause in the manual somewhere that placed more debilitating restrictions on front tire use. If point four is the only restriction then within a 200 km range, the only need for two tire change should be if snow chains are fitted on the front (I think).

I'm also comforted by Brad's latest post - thanks to you both