MK6 -v- MK7 : Golf GTI

[Brendan_A]

Good read WJ. Thanks! Can't wait to get my new GTI.

[andrew7]

Keep 'Em coming WJ! Dare I say you appear keen to wait for the R before making your purchase decision? (and btw why did you choose the Mk6 GTI over the R?)

[WhiteJames]

Why a MK6 Golf GTI over a MK6 Golf R? There's a whole thread about that. I used to own a well sorted MKV Golf GTI with EA113 motor. Ultimately: the new EA888 motor in the MK6 GTI won me over R with older EA113 motor. Other benefits of the MK6 GTI is the better value, lighter weight, cheaper service costs, nicer looks with polished 18" wheels. Golf R was only a couple of thousand more than my GTI and the R rides better than the Golf GTI. The new Golf 7 R is stated to be about 55K on-road … not sure I'd be willing to spend that much for my type of driving re: value for money. Same applies to the PP - GTI in addition to it being DSG only. I can't see me using the benefits of the LSD in the PP - GTI that often on public roadways. Local dealer states that Golf 7 R will come in manual and DSG … perhaps the manual R will be competitive on price with the PP - GTI. Atm I'm still leaning towards a Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI due to least weight & more engaging drive. My MK6 Golf GTI is not a daily driver atm, same would apply to any new Golf I may purchase. Ideally … I'd like to drive all sports Golf variants back to back, with exception of the Golf 7 GTD, which is not coming to AUS. They do have an R-Line package for the Diesel Golf 103TDI that also includes flat bottomed steering wheel and shift paddles.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

Part III: Out with the old, In with the new

MK6 –v- MK7: Part III


This is now the third part of this review. The third part being the successful sale of my old MK6 Golf GTI with DSG and subsequent purchase of my new White Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI, which I’m currently running in.


Steering:

The steering in Normal and Comfort mode is the same in term of steering weight (i.e. lightness). Comfort & Normal make the steering feel like there is a bit of slack and delay when turning around bends, but feels to be more natural than the firmer setting of Sport. Sport setting for steering seems to want to return to centre to a greater degree than the previous MK6 Golf GTI with DCC in Sport. I’m figuring that this is in part due to the progressive steering rack in the Golf 7 GTI, in additional to a secondary factor of the Golf 7 GTI chassis body being stiffer, the suspension maintaining a much greater level of integrity during corner in terms of scrub, camber & toe change. When running in the Golf 7 GTI travelling up & down through Kangaroo Valley, it would be ideal to have a setting between Comfort/Normal and Sport in terms of steering weight.

The heavier Sport setting of the Golf 7 GTI requires the driver to maintain a definite & firm grip on the steering wheel, with a natural inclination to self centre to a much greater degree than the previous MK6 GTI. In this respect, the earlier MK6 felt a bit more natural and linear in the heavier Sport DCC mode, despite feeling heavier and less direct with less feel compared to the new Golf 7 GTI. The Golf 7 GTI, despite less overall weight of steering in Sport mode, required more effort just of centre and for small adjustment to steering inputs. Thankfully, the Golf 7 GTI drives with a greater fluidity and directness, covering ground and bends with less driver effort nor any need for constant adjustment to steering line.

Currently, I have the ‘Individual Mode’ of the new Golf 7 GTI set to Sport steering, Normal damping rate and engine in Sport. I may change this on the next drive to Sport dampers & Normal steering firmness as the steering just seems have a more natural feel to it in its softer setting.


Motor:

Now that I have spent close to 400km driving the new Golf 7 GTI in a variety of environments, including city, freeway, tourist routes and mountain climbs, I have managed to decipher that there is a difference between Normal engine setting and Sport setting. The Sport is slightly sharper in throttle response. You’re unlikely to notice this on a short drive, but with extra miles under your belt, the difference is discernable. The difference is noting like the difference factored into the earlier MK6 Golf GTI for throttle response, which was ballistic in its turbine spooling speed compared to the linearity of the new Golf 7 GTI.

I’ve been keeping the revs to about 4,000rpm for the first drive and will continue to do so until at least the 1,500km odometer mark. Under load, between 2,000-4,000rpm, the Golf 7 GTI motor sounds very gravelly, very much un-like the racy sound track of the earlier MK6 Golf GTI. The engine note and noise of the new Gold 7 GTI is a disappointment after owning the previous MK6 GTI. Coming down through the Kangaroo Valley and Macquarie’s Pass, just inland of Wollongong, did have the Golf 7 GTI giving hints of the racy soundtrack of the previous MK6 GTI, but this was not under load. Under load, the Golf 7 GTI has taken a step backwards.

You can definitely feel the extra torque down low in the Golf 7 GTI, with the 7 having no issue pulling up reasonably steep gradients in gears as high as 5th, which would have the MK6 struggling.

[WhiteJames]

Chassis:

I opted to purchase the lightest Golf 7 GTI on the market as I figured that the other two variants, Golf GTI PP and Golf R, will both add weight over the front axle. This inhibits initial turn-in into bends, taking agility and the fun factor away. I’ve come to the conclusion that extra weight is basically an 80/20 rule: You’d want the extra grip of the GTI PP or Golf R 20% of the time, the remaining 80% of the time you’re just carrying extra weight you don’t need.

Being mindful that I’m in a gentle run-in phase when driving the Golf 7 GTI, during the steep hill-climbs of Kangaroo Valley didn’t have the XDS+ intervening too obtrusively. GTI PP would be better, but I’d still prefer the lighter front end of the STD GTI that turns in faster & sharper. Going downhill snaking around the myriad of bends, where fast or extreme throttle application is much less required on power out did not have me wanting an LSD of the PP nor the AWD of the Golf R. I’d much prefer the lighter weight of the STD Manual Transmission GTI.

The lighter weight of the STD Golf 7 GTI, especially at the front end in contrast to my previous front heavier MK6 GTI with DSG is a highlight when muscling the new Golf 7 GTI into corners, whether going uphill or downhill. I enjoyed having that more instantaneous turn-in of the chassis, in addition to greater mechanic mid corner grip, ability to stick to and hunt for the mid corner apex and notably improved power out propensity.

One particular corner heading down nearby Mount Kiera, just north of Wollongong, a long downhill sweeper, proved to me just how much better the Golf 7 GTI works the tyres and the reduction in understeer bias over the earlier MK6 GTI. This used to be a great corner in my much older first MKv Golf GTi with aftermarket springs, dampers and H&R adjustable sway bars adjusted for a little bit of oversteer with front bar on soft and rear on hard with the chassis pivoting around the mid-point of the chassis, just like a skier changing direction on a downhill snow slope.

The new Golf 7 GTI is not set up to be as neutral in the chassis, but is getting closer to a neutral chassis balance over that of a standard MK6 GTI, and definitely a lot less understeer biased than the first MKV Golf GTI, Golf R32 and Golf R. The advantage of the Golf 7 GTI is that you don’t have all the negatives that come with aftermarket adjustable sway bars. This corner and similar long constant radius sweeping corners really put a smile on my dial and only cemented my decision to upgrade from MK6 GTI to Golf 7 GTI. It’s also apparent that the tyres are working much better and harder with less tyre scrub with greater composure. The stiffer chassis of the Golf 7 GTI allows for stiffer bushing & a greater degree of consistency in suspension geometry under load & duress. I'd say that the suspension bushing is also stiffer, like going from a MK6 GTI to an Audi TT-RS or similar.

I had the suspension and steering in Sport mode during my drive from the dealership on the North Shore down to the Sutherland Shire to experience the worst that the Golf 7 GTI had to offer in terms of city & urban ride comfort. The ride comfort is much improved over the previous MK6 Golf GTI and certainly liveable at city commuting, although I’d be incline to run the Normal setting which notably improves ride comfort, especially over expansion joints in the roadway. Be mindful that the electronic dampers gain greater force as speed rise in the new Golf 7 GTI – the damping rate does not stay uniform.

Alternatively, the lower end of Kangaroo Valley nearing the township of Nowra had the Golf 7 GTI in Comfort setting due to the poor state of the rough B-grade roadway. The ride refinement is improved with little loss in chassis control. Sometimes the rebound rate is a bit wallowing compared to the compression rate when striking bumps and undulations, but this was apparent in the MK6 Golf GTI with DCC suspension tune … feels like the rebound rate is reduced at twice the rate of the compression rate when going from a harder setting to softer setting for the dampers.

Overall, the Golf 7 GTI makes it much easier work to cover ground than any previous MK6 Golf variant before it, which is less taxing on the driver.


Interior:

The interior ambience is similar to the MK6 Golf. The Bluetooth connection for my iPhone is great and the SatNav has different graphics for day and night, in addition to 2 dimensional flat or vertical views. The stereo quality is similar to the MK6 Golf GTI, perhaps a little better in addition to improve quietness of the Golf 7 GTI interior, despite the intrusion of the gravelly engine note at lower revs when the motor is under load.

Route:

I covered about 360km for my first run-in drive with an average speed of just over 60kph and using 7.5 litres/100km. The economy is nothing to brag about at the moment, but it did involve a city commute and lots of hill-climbs thrown in the mix. Overall, I’m happy with my purchase. I would’ve liked to add the adaptive cruise control, but there was nothing available in AUS with Manual Transmission. A couple of things I need to work out on the new Golf 7 GTI: a. Whether the passenger’s side mirror has a dipping function when the GTI is put into reverse; and, b. Where I can purchase a cord/adaptor to plug in my iPhone into the 3.5mm jack to re-charge my iPhone while driving.

WJ

[Idle]

The left mirror should dip if you move the adjustment switch to the "L" position (at least, my diesel Highline does, so I'd expect a GTI to be the same.)

[tonymy01]

Are you sure some of that "gravelly" engine note you talk about isn't the artificial Soundaktor (assuming the mk7 has one like the mk6, mind you, you say the mk6 sounded racy which also could have been the Soundaktor).

[WhiteJames]

Thermal Dynamics

Thermal Dynamics:

The drive from Sutherland Shire to Wollongong, then upwards for the 25km to the township of Robertson, through Macquarie Pass shows the difference in thermal dynamics between the old MK6 Golf GTI and new Golf 7 GTI that has the turbo exhaust manifold cast into the head, which includes water cooling jackets.

The old MK6 Golf GTI oil temperature would fluctuate between about 93 degrees to 115 degrees on this drive. That’s a difference of over 20 degrees in fluctuation in oil temp. The MK6 oil on the highway would generally sit around 95-98 degrees in Sydney weather.

The new Golf oil temp on the same drive fluctuates between 103 degrees to 111 degrees, obviously with the 111 degrees being struck towards the end of the 20 minute hill-climb. That a difference of 8 degrees in the new Golf 7 GTI, much less than the older MK6 version. The Golf 7 GTI oil temp generally seems to run higher & hotter than the old MK6, with oil temp consistently hovering around 106-107 degrees, in both city, highway and tourist route driving.

I think this would be a good thing for turbo longevity with constant oil temps in addition to allowing Volkswagen have higher torque output in the Golf 7 GTI, not to mention consistency of oil quality over the 15,000km service intervals.

It really is a good feat to have the Golf 7 GTI both ride better with greater refinement, despite losing weight, and step up the handling agility over and above the previous MK6 Golf GTI.

I’ll have to have a look at the owner’s manual re: auto dimming mirror function as the dealer was unsure whether the GTI did or didn’t have this function. The small front quarter window was not tinted as this area was too small to adequately tint.

I doubt that the sound actuator is making the gravelly engine note noise as I’ve been keeping the revs under 4,000rpm, which would not engage the sound actuator imo. The engine in the Golf 7 GTI is definitely not as characterful as the motor in the MK6 version.

The Golf 7 GTI sits somewhere between the older MK6 GTI and a Golf GTD, only a lot smoother and linear in power delivery, without the extra weight over the front axle.

WJ

[Paul_R]

Re the dipping left mirror in reverse: you need to adjust the mirrors to where you want them with the car not in reverse then put it in reverse, turn the selector to the left and adjust that mirror to where you want it when it dips. Mirror should then move to that position when in reverse AND the selector in left position. If the selector is in the middle it won't dip when in reverse. That's what the Mk 6 (and wife's CX-9) does anyway.

[mfl]

I always found the steering wheel in the mk6 GTI, one of the best I have used and seen and the engine note a disappointment.

A thinner steering wheel and less racy exhaust note, seems like backward steps in my view, but I get the feeling I am must be on the fringes of GTI owners, as I also want a mechanical handbrake and ESP that can be fully switched off.

[WhiteJames]

Golf 7 GTI: DSG -v- Manual Transmission

It was a bonus to find out that the standard Golf 7 GTI comes with front park sensors in addition to rear park sensors. Additionally, there is a park-pilot function that you switch on if you are driving down a very narrow laneway to assist you in how close the GTI is to other objects, which shows up as a silhouette on the centre info screen.


In regards to the dipping passenger’s side mirror, as earlier stated, the driver has to put the park brake on, turn ignition on, put gear into reverse and the adjust the passenger’s side dipping mirror to help prevent kerb the 18” Austin Wheels.


In addition to this, the Golf 7 GTI requires you to access the ‘CAR’ setup menu on the centre-info screen and choose wipers & mirrors function. Each of the two driver’s key has its own frequency, so the dipping passenger side mirror will have a specific angle depending on which GTI key the driver uses … one for you, another for your partner. The passenger’s side dipping mirror is working as expected. Cheers.


A subsequent drive today was a shorter drive in the afternoon re: running in the Golf 7 GTI. I’m adamant that as many drives as possible within the 1500rpm initial running phase has to involve some form of hill-climb. This is to ensure that I will not have to put oil into the Golf 7 GTI between service intervals.


I believe in following the owner’s manual for the run in phase, rather than thrashing the motor hard, as high revs may result in washing out the cylinders as the motor may dump excess fuel at high revs to keep the turbine cool. This may wash out oil from under the rings, possible scorching the bore. Keep revs low and loading up the motor up-hills is more prudent imo.


Three runs up and down to the Boat Shed in the Royal National Park, just south of Sydney was done with driving modes in Normal, Sport and Comfort settings, one after another. This gave me an opportunity to compare the Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI with the demonstrator Golf 7 GTI with DSG I drove a few weeks back.


Earlier on, the Golf 7 GTi with DSG with 2-up occupants (salesman and I) had the XDS differential pinching the inside front wheel shifting power to the out-board front driving wheel from apex to corner exit. This was apparent on both downhill and uphill drives.

XDS intervention was less apparent on my new Golf 7 GTI with Manual Transmission. It appears that the slightly heavier DSG version of the Golf 7 GTI which more than likely involves slightly higher front spring rate seems to have the XDS electronic pseudo diff lending more proactive support around bends. We’re not talking a great degree, subtle although notable differences in XDS operation between DSG and MT. One extra occupant on board may also have contributed to tendency of XDS to intervene more so in the DSG Golf 7 GTI.


The DSG version of the Golf 7 GTI, with extra weight of the DSG up front and most probably slightly heavier rate front springs did require a bit of extra effort to tip into the corners, with a tendency towards a little more under-steer into corners, making the drive less fluid than in my Manual Trans Golf 7 GTI. It’s not going to be a deal breaker, but prospective owners should drive both DSG and Manual Trans to be sure. It does feel to me that the stated difference of 13kgs extra weight of the DSG up front is apparent, and at times feels more to be 15-20kgs as is the case with the difference in weight between the MK6 DSG and Manual Trans GTI’s.


The slightly lighter front end of the Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI with an apparent slightly less spring rate at the front end is that bit more agile, both handling better with a touch better ride quality. The Manual Golf 7 GTI feels to roll onto the outside front wheel a little more, allowing for that bit more turn-in bite into bends and a greater amount of fluidity right through the bend. This was expected and no different to the earlier GTI examples (MKV, MK6) when comparing DSG –v- MT. Despite the slight differences between the DSG and MT Golf 7 GTI’s, the XDS appears to be more proactive in the Golf 7 GTI regardless of the transmission type when comparing against the previous MK6 Golf GTI.

In comparison with the earlier MK6 Golf GTI: the earlier MK6 Golf GTI moves around to a greater degree from a mechanical perspective, even with DCC fitted to the MK6. The driver feels the heavier front nose into corners and then the rear sway bar compensating with some lateral force to aid the nose around corners once the chassis takes a moment to settle on the outside tyres. The movement of the front and rear is more pronounced in the older MK6 Golf GTI.

The Golf 7 GTI offers much less feeling of suspension movement due to greater composure and a more balanced chassis. Whereas the heavier MK6 Golf GTI seems to have an initial firmer spring rate, once lateral forces start to build, feels softer & moves around more so. The Golf 7 GTI feels to have an advantage in that the lighter chassis allows for a more uniform spring rate that improves in the reduction of body roll, while at the same time offer a smoother & more comfort ride. The springs in concert with the lighter weight seem to contain the Golf 7 GTI chassis to a far greater degree.

Overall, I would not say that the Golf 7 GTI suspension tune is tuned to be firmer than the earlier MK6 Golf GTI. I wouldn’t say that the Golf 7 GTI suspension tune is more inert either, as can be the case with the much heavier harder-core hatches such as the Audi RS3/Merc A45 AMG that can be more track focused. The Golf 7 GTI is just more focused, stable and with less tendency to under-steer and greater stability in the rear end esp. in the operation of the rear sway bar. The driver is able to perceive that the wheelbase is longer in the Golf 7 GTI, adding in extra stability during cornering. Tightening the line on closing radius corners does not have the rear sway bar on the Golf 7 GTI working nearly as hard as the older MK6 Golf GTI, but at the same time making greater progress with less driver effort.

The Golf 7 GTI was sounding better on this steeply graded route in regards to motor acoustics, showing some traits of racy type of sounds, but never completely losing that low pitched gravelly engine note.

The highlight of the three running-in motor drives down to the Boat Shed was when having the Golf 7 GTI in Sport setting, where handling and performance is more akin to the harder-core Renault Megane RS265, with the exception of the Steering in Sport setting, which feels to be a tad sticky around centre with a desire to consistency return to centre. The MK6 GTI with DCC had this propensity, but not as pronounced. I guess it’s to protect the driver from oversteering into a corner with the firmer damping of the chassis & greater tyre/mechanical grip of the new Golf 7 chassis, which points into corners faster than the MK6. The Sport setting also reduced noise when the suspension struck a change-of-surface bitumen bump on one particular corner when going up-hill –v- compared to the softer Normal and Comfort settings.

Based on my vague memory, three Boat Shed runs up and down in the MK6 Golf GTI, one for each of the three DCC settings, had fuel economy readings of about 13.3 litres/100km. The Golf 7 GTI did today’s three runs up and down the hill-cliimb with a fuel economy reading of 11.2 litres/100km, although this was with a 4,000rpm rev limit. The Golf 7 GTI appears to warm a bit faster than the MK6 in terms of oil temperature.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

XDS

A few other things I’ve noted about the new Golf 7 GTI:

The Golf 7 GTI is easier to place to the roadway than the previous model MKV and MK6 Golf GTI’s. The MKV was the worst to place on the roadway, with heaps of factory induced understeer & body roll. The MK6 with XDS and stiffer rear sway bar was greatly improved for driver ease of placement. The MK6 with DCC is much better again in terms of placing the GTI exactly where you want it. The Golf 7 GTI is so much easier to place than all preceding GTi models.

Traversing around the mountainous roadways over the past few days, I have not struck one cats-eye on my side of the roadway, as the Golf 7 GTI offers greater directness and sharpness when placing it on the roadway around corners, I guess this can be attributed to the progressive steering, lighter weight, longer chassis footprint, less under-steer and more proactive XDS system. It’s not all good though.

I’ve gleaned that the XDS system in the Golf 7 GTI is also more proactive than the previous model GTI in damp conditions, with moist & damp to wet roadways. It’s not a stability ESC type of engagement, but a proactive dab of the front and sometimes rear brakes to aid the Golf 7 GTI into corners. I’m forming the opinion that due to the extra focus in the 7 chassis, in concert with lighter weight & greater mechanical & effective tyre grip, everything happens quite a bit faster in the Golf 7 GTI in comparison to previous models.

I think Volkswagen have taken that into consideration when developing the XDS/ESC functions on the Golf 7 GTI. Be mindful that the proactive XDS/ESC nudges do occur on entry into bends, which I cannot see changing in the other variants such as the PP GTI and Golf 7 R. This does take a bit away from the driver’s ability to muscle the Golf around a series of bends. If you want the ultimate in driver involvement, look elsewhere. Thankfully, the Golf 7 GTI makes up for the loss in ultimate driver engagement in added refinement imo.


The higher geared manual transmission Golf 7 GTI on the highway on a slight to moderate incline at about 100kph will struggle to increase speed on light throttle application in 6th gear. The port injection may also have something to do with this in addition to the long final 6th gear ratio of the manual transmission Golf 7 GTI. I’d agree with some media reports that the DSG version of the Golf 7 GTI would do a better job of masking this, in addition to being slightly lower geared for the top 6th gear ratio.


In damp to wet conditions, I’ve found that Sport setting is more fun going uphill during mountain climbs as the Sport setting encourages the driver to be a bit more ham-fisted. Normal setting for coming down the mountain-side in damp to wet conditions, allowing for that bit more chassis movement & articulation adding driver awareness and feel, in addition to slightly more natural steering, feel for lower-grip situations. In the dry, Sport setting is the one to go for to carve up and down the hilly terrain.

The manual transmission Golf 7 GTI is more involving than the DSG. This requires more focus from the driver, which in turn keeps the driver from letting the GTI get away from you in terms to sticking at or below the speed limit, especially on downhill runs. Going uphill, you do lose 5-10kph during gear-changes in the manual, which aids the driver to keep an eye on the speedometer.

Finally:

I’m going to ask you guys to do the arithmetic when vying for that empty gap in traffic. Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission with 350Nm at a lowly1500rpm weighing in at 1213kgs (maybe 1-2 kilos more with window tint) … or … Ray’s almost fully optioned MK6 Golf R DSG with 330Nm at a higher 2200rpm weighing in at around 1500kgs?

Which vehicle is most likely to secure that empty traffic spot?

WJ

[WhiteJames]

White or Black

When looking for a new Golf 7 GTI, considered either White or Black colour. Greater availability of White in my spec ... so White it is. Therefore get to keep the user name of WhiteJames. White also contrasts nicely with the Carbon window tint.

See pictures of the new White Golf 7 GTI on post #511 of page 24: WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - Page 24 - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com .

WJ

[Diesel_vert]

I’m going to ask you guys to do the arithmetic when vying for that empty gap in traffic. Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission with 350Nm at a lowly1500rpm weighing in at 1213kgs (maybe 1-2 kilos more with window tint) … or … Ray’s almost fully optioned MK6 Golf R DSG with 330Nm at a higher 2200rpm weighing in at around 1500kgs?

Which vehicle is most likely to secure that empty traffic spot?

Despite the power advantage, faster 0-100 km/h time and faster shift times (DSG) in Ray's car, I'll give the nod to your GTI because of its power-to-weight ratio advantage, especially for rolling starts below 5000 RPM.

However, the results may vary depending on any significant differences in gearing and traction issues. I also assume that the DSG in Ray's car was prevented from automatically downshifting into the lowest gear available.

[AdamD]

However, the results may vary depending on any significant differences in gearing and traction issues. I also assume that the DSG in Ray's car was prevented from automatically downshifting into the lowest gear available.

Why assume the DSG can't shift down if the manual can? My money's on the R, especially if a downshift (from cruising gear to lowest possible gear) is involved. And once the R is beyond 2200rpm and is closer to peak power, it'll walk away. Otherwise, based solely on tractability in a high gear from near-idle, the GTI will have it over a short distance.

The Mk7 R may rectify this situation, as long as the final Australian spec isn't too heavy. Mind you, journos haven't been too positive about the new S3's lack of lag thus far, so who knows.