MK6 -v- MK7 : Golf GTI

[readerr0r]

Has anyone been tempted by the A3 1.8t Quattro? Carsales seems to show most dealers are listing them for about 3-5K below their retail, you can get an S-Line for not much more than a DSG GTI and 6.8 0-100 isn't bad since it has awd.

[SuperHans]

Has anyone been tempted by the A3 1.8t Quattro? Carsales seems to show most dealers are listing them for about 3-5K below their retail, you can get an S-Line for not much more than a DSG GTI and 6.8 0-100 isn't bad since it has awd.

Its a good price sure, but despite the impressive figures on paper, it doesn't drive, sound or feel anything like the GTI - it feels much more like a 103TSI golf (and even I thought the golf was better tbh)

[WhiteJames]

ESC: Normal -v- Sport

ESC: Normal –v- Sport

The ESC setting is, like just about everything else on the Golf 7 GTI, accessed via the infotainment centre dash touch screen ‘CAR’ menu. Now that the crucial 1,000km run-in period is over and I’m nearing the 1500km mark on the odometer, I conducted some back to back runs, putting the new Golf 7 GTI Manual into ESC in standard default ‘Normal’ setting and ESC in ‘Sport’ setting.

The drive in the dry was conducted with 4 back-to-back runs with ESC in its default Normal setting, one each for Normal, Sport, Comfort and Individual. Later, another 4 runs with ESC setting in Sport mode were in the same manner: Normal, Sport, Comfort and finally Individual. I’ve made a change to my Individual setting, opting for Normal/Comfort steering, Sport dampers for flat grippy handling, and Sport for throttle sensitivity. I think that the Sport throttle application may change the engine note sound actuator, but can’t say definitely at this point in time (need more miles to be sure).

Playing with the throttle when driving around bends in the Normal default ESC setting has the Golf 7 GTI feeling a bit constricted in terms of exploring the chassis balance and grip levels. The XDS pseudo electronic diff always feels that bit too proactive during corning, with the front inside and inside rear brakes being pinched, vectoring the Golf 7 GTI into turns to keep it on its intended line around bends. It appears that the inside rear wheel is pinched going into bends, which helps set the Golf 7 GTI to point sharply into corners, rather than relying on the mechanical sway bars as was the case in the MK6 Golf GTI. As stated earlier, the proactive XDS/vectoring is a little more noticeable in the DSG version Golf 7 GTI over the Manual-Transmission version & definitely more noticeable in the Golf 7 GTI when contrasted with the MK6 Golf GTI.

There was no real compulsion to disengage the ESC button on the previous MK6 Golf GTI as the MK6 offered plenty of slack with all stability control mechanisms activated, with or without DG Sport springs. Alternatively, the MK6 Golf GTI didn’t offer as much tyre or chassis grip. The MK6 GTI often pinches the front wheel to drag the vehicle further into the corner to limit undertsteer, but without any vectoring of the rear brake as occurs on the Golf 7.

The Golf 7 GTI with all stability control aids switched on in their Normal default setting does not allow the chassis the freedom to roll & lean hard enough on the Dunlop Sport Maxx GT asymmetrical tyres’ harder compound outside sidewalls. XDS pseudo diff and brake vectoring at the rear end of the Golf 7 interferes to electronically adjust the vehicle’s intended line & interrupt the fluidity of the mechanical process of a vehicle about to lean on it’s springs.

My experience with asymmetrical tyres in the past is that they tend to move around a little bit, then firm up once the tyre starts to fold over onto the striffer outer tread block, which returns some grip and stability to the vehicle during cornering.

[WhiteJames]

ESC Sport mode illuminates the annoying to look at icon within the dash speedometer. ESC Sport setting allows greater freedom to more adequately explore the goodness and natural state of the Golf 7 GTI chassis, removing that veil between driver and machine and riding the Golf 7 GTI of the crimping & vectoring feeling during cornering, that fails to completely utilizing the available grip of the tyres.

The ESC Sport setting reduction in proactive electronic interference makes it more demanding for the driver to work the Golf 7 GTI into and out of bends, while at the same time allowing for a more natural progression into and out of corners that is much more fluid. The driver is able to get back to the basics of driving as an art.

ESC Sport also allows the driver to carry greater pace into and out of corner in addition to permitting greater acceleration around apex, providing the driver with the ability to delve deeper into the recess of the Golf 7 GTI chassis ability . The end result is exploring a really fine balanced chassis that is progressive with great mechanical grip that by far allows the driver to test the surprisingly better than expected SP Dunlop Sport Maxx GT Asymmetrical tyre grip levels. ESC in Sport setting not only makes the chassis feel more natural, but improves the steering feeling with less XDS corruption.

The fun factor with ESC Sport is definitely improved, so much so, Sport setting is bringing the Golf 7 GTI fun factor much closer to it’s main rival potential ownership rival, the BRZ/FT86 Coupe twins, when snaking around the tight twisting mountainous roadways. The twin coupes will always have a greater driver/machine connection, but the Golf 7 GTI with ESC Sport setting has a fun factor elevates it to near enough for the driver to walk away with a big grin on this face, without having to endure the negatives of owning a specialized coupe.

The Sport setting for ESC on the Golf 7 GTI imo offers more than enough fun for public roadway use. The grip levels of the Golf 7 GTI are quite a bit higher than the outgoing MK6 Golf. The Golf 7 GTI grip levels are unlikely to be breached in dry weather public roadway driving, not unless your going seriously & stupidly fast or you’re seriously inept. I didn’t feel any need for a completely off/disengagement of the ESC stability function setting, not for having fun on the public roadway at public roadway speeds. The ESC Sport setting also permits greater freedom for power down wheel slippage out of corner or in a straight line.

After conducting my back-to-back ESC Normal –v- ESC Sport review for the Golf 7, it started to rain down. With the inclement weather, I made a B-Line for Garie Beach deep within the Royal National Park (RNP), between Sydney and Wollongong. Access to the RNP is very convenient when you live in the Sutherland Shire.

Garie Beach Road snakes down to the beach, and is generally known for its less grippy coarse chip bitumen surface with a mix of low to moderate speed bends and switchbacks. Some corners have up to 3 different surface textures within the one bend, all with varied grip levels. The last time I drove this route in wet conditions was immediately after I fitted a set of Vollkswagen Driver Gear (DG) Sport Springs to my previous MK6 Golf GTI. In this regard, we’re comparing apples with apples re: grip levels of MK6 –v- Golf 7.

Powering up the wet hillside with 350Nm at my disposal in the Golf 7 GTI showed up enhanced grip levels over and above the MK6 Golf GTI. No doubts about it. Part due to new fancy Golf 7 asymmetrical tyres, improved ESC Sport and XDS calibration, improved optimization of spring to chassis rates, and much more linear power delivery.

The linear power delivery of the Golf 7 GTI makes it a lot easier to feed the power on in measured doses, as opposed to the fast spooling less linear MK6 GTI motor. In wet and damp conditions, the driver has to be mindful of any abrupt or over-judicious throttle application in the torque rich EA888 multi-port injected motor, but it’s a definite improvement on the previous MK6 Golf GTI for wet weather grip levels, despite the extra torque at such low revs. At the same time, you are able to be more ham-fisted with the gas in the Golf 7 with less ESC light flickering.

Generally: heading through the northern part of the RNP, between Garie Beach and Bundeena, the roadway is quite rough in many areas. The Golf 7 GTI, although offering notably improved ride compliance, comfort and refinement over and above the MK6 Golf GTI, can feel a bit too tied down, even in Comfort mode for the rougher sections of the RNP roadways.

Additionally, with the rain coming down on rougher B-grade roadways, there does seem to be some squeaking from the rear tailgate rubber seals. Someone else brought this issue up earlier on in an alternative review. I’m betting that the rain filtering down form the roof of the vehicle is working its way down & out through the rear tailgate, causing the rubber to squeak upon some chassis flex when the roadway is rough. Not a big issue, but could be a nemesis for the Golf 7 MQB platform. To be sure, I’ll be best advised to remove all the water bottles in my door cup-holders, as most of the time it the water bottles that make most of the squeaks. The Golf 7 GTI is much improved for interior squeaks & chassis rigidity, especially free from squeaks from the B-Pillar and rear multi-link suspension when loaded mainly on one wheel.


Other things worth noting is that in the Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI, should you stall the vehicle, it automatically starts once you depress the clutch. Another point that seemed to crystallize is that even though you’d be able to switch off or totally disengage stability control on other VAG products, I doubt that you’d be able to completely disengage the XDS pseudo electronic diff or rear end vectoring as these measures now seem to be included in the overall chassis design/tuning. In hindsight, the preceding MK6 Golf GTI’s stability control system when completely engaged seems to sit somewhere between the XDS/Vectoring/ESC Golf 7 system in its Normal to Sport setting for having some fun & driver engagment out on the tourist route. Finally, it’s well worth noting that the cost for me to update from MK6 Golf GTI to Golf 7 GTI was $13,500 … in other words … peanuts.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Drive.com.au Sports Car of the Year <60K

Interesting to note that the Golf 7 GTI has a speed restrictor function. The driver is able to set the max speed of the Golf 7 GTI so that the vehicle does not exceed that speed. This is not a speed warning chime, which the Golf 7 GTI also has, with mine set at 130kph, but actual speed restrictor.

As noted, as the Golf 7 GTI’s new MQB chassis is able to carry higher speeds during cornering, the standard default setting for the ESC intervention errs on the side of caution, cutting in earlier. I wouldn’t say that the Golf 7 GTI’s ESC/XDS/Vectoring enables at a lower speed than the preceding MK6 GTI, but definitely activates earlier prior to the driver nearing the threshold of the available level of tyre grip. As stated earlier, this takes away the ability of the chassis to work on its springs & sway bars making for a less mechanical feeling to the drive experience, not to mention failing to allow the tyres to work to their full capacity during cornering. The MK6 Golf GTI: It was a case of ESC either on/off with no Sport function ESC calibration.

It appears that the ESC Sport function is designed & calibrated for ‘Sporty’ driving and imo, ESC Sport is best engaged for sporty driving. Although it’s nice to know that in ‘Normal’ default ESC setting, the stability control mechanisms are more proactive (ESC, XDS & Rear Vectoring) in conjunction with each other, making for a safer overall drive and should any evasive action be required. I’ve also noted that there is less evidence of the sidewalls being worked to the degree that the preceding MK6 Golf GTI would work them, and definitely much much better than the MKV Golf GTI, that would lean quite heavily on its outside front tyre during Sporty cornering.

In terms of thermal dynamics: I drove to the Sydney CBD on Sunday. No peak hour traffic, but always traffic around and into & out of the CBD. The oil temps seemed to hover around the 109 degrees, as stated earlier to reduce friction, which can be felt with a freer spinning motor, now that the Golf 7 GTI has some miles on it. This is in contrast to about 1 dozen hill-climb drives that in every case, bar one, had the oil temps sitting on 111 degrees. Ultimately, only a 2 degree variation in range from urban inner city driving to loading up the motor during a 15-20 minute mountain climb. Also may explain why Golf 7 GTI uses less fuel under load, as the motor is being kept within its optimal oil temp/heat range.

I’ve driven the Renault Sport Megane RS250 and would agree that it’s the ultimate general production hot-hatch in terms of grip levels, speed & driver involvement. Most media reports indicate that this is still the case when the RS265 Renault Sport Megane is compared to the GTI – PP with LSD. My Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI with ESC in Sport mode is a great leap forward over the MK6 Golf GTI on DG Sport Springs, and brings the Golf 7 GTI much closer to the Renault Sport for grip levels, cornering ability and driver involvement with much improved ride and refinement levels (ESC Sport that is). Leads me to think that the difference between the Renault Sport RS265, GTI – PP and Std GTI (MT) will not be a huge chasm as a daily driver on the street, as this drive.com.au Car of the Year article will attest to:

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/dcoty-2013-best-performance-car-under-60000-20131127-2y9bt.html

I reckon the manual trans Golf 7 GTI would have come that bit closer to the 86 Toyota Coupe re: less weight up the front for slightly sharper turn-into corners & greater driver engagement. The article is definitely on the money for enhanced refinement, comfort & grip levels.

[Mountainman]

Interesting to note that the Golf 7 GTI has a speed restrictor function.

All Mk7 Golfs have that - even my lowly $22K base model 90 TSI. It's sure a strange feeling when you reach that restricted speed.

[Lima]

Interesting to note that the Golf 7 GTI has a speed restrictor function. The driver is able to set the max speed of the Golf 7 GTI so that the vehicle does not exceed that speed. This is not a speed warning chime, which the Golf 7 GTI also has, with mine set at 130kph, but actual speed restrictor.

Just mash the go fast pedal to the floor and instantly the restrictor is gone!

[WhiteJames]

Must be for when the paparazzi are chasing & hounding you re: pedal to firewall/restrictor. Here's a car advice.com.au video review of the Golf 7 GTI:

2014 Volkswagen Golf GTI Video Review |  CarAdvice CarAdvice

WJ

[WhiteJames]

In Hindsight

In terms of driver engagement, hindsight is a good thing when comparing the Golf 7 GTI to its forebears, the MKV and MK6 Golf GTI’s.

Lets start with the MKV Golf GTI.

A vehicle with too much understeer & bouncy big-bump high speed compression ride with not enough damping, and a tendency for the chassis to lean heavily on its front outside wheel, overworking the side tyre-wall with too much positive outside wheel camber roll.

The MK6 Golf GTI.

The MK6 Golf GTI improved on reducing the understeer that the MKV Golf GTI had dialed in from factory with a larger rear sway bar, stiffer chassis and XDS pseudo electronic diff on the front only, despite being more clinical in its approach into & out of corners. The steering was lighter to appeal to the masses, but models equipped with DCC had the option of heavier steering mode to some benefit.

The non DCC MK6 Golf GTI still suffered from low speed compression small bump incessant patter/bobbing up/down, but high-speed compression hits were tuned to be softer, like the standard steering on the MK6 GTI. The DCC improved the high speed compression hits with electronic interference on large, fast & deep bump compression hits, but DCC could never truly relax in the low speed minor roadway irregularities, indicating that the damping rate was that bit too much relative to spring rate. This gave the impression of sporty handling, with faster transitions back from body roll or pitching using the same springs as the non DCC standard MK6 Golf GTI.

The MK6 Golf R rode the bumps better as it was heavier than the GTI, but still had the old school MKV Golf GTI greater inherent understeer biased chassis tune, but was an improvement over the MKV R32 with less weight over the front end.

The thing with the MK6 Golf GTI is that while I had driven it around many of the roadways that I drove the Golf 7 GTI on when exploring the chassis tune during running-in phase, there was never any great deal of inclination to take the MK6 Golf GTI out for a blast for the sake of driver engagement and fun.

The MK6 Golf GTI was certainly a better vehicle to own than the MKV Golf GTI, but not as driver focused or fun as the new Golf 7 GTI. The XDS pseudo electronic diff in the MK6 Golf GTI at the front only operated with a greater amount of crudeness and crass, adjusting the vehicle line and crimping the inside front driving wheel, taking a bit away from driver involvement . The MK6 Golf GTI was more one-dimensional when it come to XDS and driver engagement.

The Golf 7 GTI.

There was concern that electronics would further reduce the visceral nature of the drive & engagement with vehicle. Rest assured that the electronics, well in ESC Sport mode anyway, act as a driver aid to help improve the focus of the drive experience & therefore driver engagement.

The MKV Golf GTI started with no electronics other than traction control. The MK6 Golf GTI adopted the low speed EDL and higher speed XDS pseudo electronic diff, which while aiding entering and exiting corners, but was a much cruder form of intervention in concert with lower overall MK6 chassis grip levels.

The Golf 7 GTI surpasses all before it for driver reward, fun and engagement, whether it be the MKV GTI, R32, MK6 GTI or Golf R.

The Golf 7 GTI rides and handles better, making it lighter on its feet to change direction & more fun on rougher roadways that you would tend to avoid in vehicles with much stiffer chassis tunes. The steering telegraphs greater feel & pronounced tyre grip levels.

As a result, I’m finding that the new Golf 7 GTI encourages me to take the long road home more often than its forebears provided ESC is in ‘Sport’ mode. Despite the addition of extra electronic aids to aid safety in the Golf 7 GTI, technology has move further ahead to allow for electronic tuning to aid the driver experience.

WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Hi James, The new model S3 is out now. I look forward to reading about Ray, the test drive and how glad you are that the base model GTI is still the best.

The R is out in June. **** is gonna get serious down the shire.

Cheers

[WhiteJames]

MK6 Golf R -v- Golf 7 GTI

Ray was introduced as a character in this write-up as he is an owner of a MK6 Golf R, which allowed for a consequential review of the Golf 7 GTI –v- MK6 Golf R, prior to any Audi S3/Golf 7 R drive. Friday 2 weeks ago was left open for Ray to bring out his almost fully loaded DSG MK6 Golf R to play against my bare-bones MT Golf 7 GTI to see if the Golf 7 GTI truly kicks the MK6 Golf R’s butt as a a more effective real-world driver's vehicle. Unfortunately: Ray couldn’t make the time.

I’ve suggested that Ray spend some time in the Golf 7 GTI prior to the Audi S3/Golf 7 R as the Golf 7 GTI is essentially the donar vehicle for the S3/7 R. Start from the base model and work your way up to adequately evaluate if the additional hardware justifies the extra spend I say.

Personally, the only other variant of Golf 7 I wish to drive is the Carbon Edition Golf 7 GTI with carbon roof, which is not likely to be out for another 4 years, or about the time I may look to trade over.

I’ve sent Ray the link for adding the length of conduit into the upper door frame to prevent/reduce the B-Pillar noise on larger bumps. Not something that any owner of any hatchback should have to do, let alone on a 60K premium euro hatch.

This is Ray’s second Golf R, he pulled the pin on a 67K almost fully loaded MK6 Golf R about 3 years ago, keeping his R32 for longer, only to buy this demo R version without DCC for 58K, which looked like good value at the time until the Golf 7 GTI and Audi S3 hit the market with added value. The cost for Ray to change into an Audi S3 so soon would amount to over 60K spend, trading up from R32 to R to S3 within 12 months, not good accounting in anyone’s book (Remember that Ray is actually an accountant).

Is the Audi S3 better than the Golf 7 GTI?

Depends on which way you look at it. Objectively: No … as the premium doesn’t justify the extra spend of the Audi S3. You didn’t need me to tell you that. Subjectively: Depending on personal desire and/or personal expenditure, I think the Audi S3 would be the pick as it is now 11K cheaper, will be not much heavier than a PP GTI, but lighter than the Golf R, with a premium interior (leather included), added standard features and a better electronic dampers/suspension system derived from Ferrari. A suitable optioned Golf 7 R is not likely to be that much less in price than the Audi S3 Sportback.

Buying Ray’s almost fully loaded demo MK6 Golf R is like buying a cheap Lowes suit: You get all the bells & whistles, but you’re ultimately stuck with a cheap ill-fitting suit. For about 10K more, but compromising some of the bells & whistles (I say screw the sunroof & techno-pack, just go for the adaptive dampers) on the Audi S3 would’ve been a more prudent choice imo, a bit like forsaking the inner vest on a premium Armani suit, but ultimately ending up with a supremely better fitting and comfortable garment as opposed to the cheap Lowes MK6 Golf R end of season special suit. Maybe ray doesn’t want to drive a Golf 7 GTI, otherwise he may end up owning one like me.

Here’s a couple of reviews: One from the NRMA on the Golf 7 GTI, another from caradvice.com.au on the new Audi S3.

Audi S3 Sportback Review |Â*CarAdvice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5zph_iutvA

WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Classic WhiteJames. Excellent work.

[andrew7]

Good work WJ

[sameatworld]

Ray would be very sad that you compared his "new" car to a Lowes suit me thinks. It's a bit mean to describe the MK6 as cheap ill-fitting suit! Especially as I think the MK7 interior isn't much improved on the MK6. But do agree that he should have waited rather than buying an R. Friends should stop friends from buy Lowes no?

I think the MK7 GTI represents a generational improvement of MQB (or whatever) over the MK6 form. Hence while I accept WJ's comments of MK7 vs MK6, am not looking forward to sure to come exaggeration of superiority of mk7 GTI over everything under the sun including the new R and the S3.

Personally, I think the fiesta ST is the one to get in terms of fun and good value. I might dare say that the fiest ST makes even the new GTI redundant... *runs and hides*

Below is also a link of what I thought from the S3 test drive
New S3

[WhiteJames]

MK6 Golf R: Bunnings Irrigation Counduit 4mm & 6mm

Speaking of MK6 v Golf 7 differences, there appears to be an issue with the tolerances of the MK6 Golf R, in particular, Ray’s MK6 Golf R. The local Sutherland dealer had greased up the door lock mechanisms of Ray’s MK6 Golf R. This sorted out the B-Pillar knocking to a degree, but did not eliminate it. Ray when and purchased himself lengths of 4mm and 6mm irrigation conduit from Bunnings Hardware to inset into the Golf R door frame rubbers.

It is interesting to note that the 6mm conduit fits the driver’s offside of the MK6 Golf R, but the passenger nearside could only take the 4mm conduit. Attempting to put 6mm conduit into the nearside passenger’s side door-frame resulted in the doors not being able to close properly. Although, the driver’s offside door frames easily accepted the larger diameter 6mm conduit. Could this due to manufacturing tolerances? No such issue with the new Golf 7 GTI in this regard.

I checked the oil in my Golf 7 GTI for the first time in 1800km of driving. Not a drop of oil used so far, which augers well for the Golf 7 GTI, as I envisage that it’s unlikely to use any oil in normal use driving for quite some time. All the tourist route and mountain climb run-in driving is paying dividends. To be frank, new age motor and oils probably help in this regard.

Driving around town, I’ve had the opportunity to compare the Golf 7 GTI around some of the local roadways down South, in particular, quick direction changes negotiating round-a-bouts.

The MK6 Golf GTI on standard springs used to have the inside wheel scrabble for grip, where the inside tyre would unload due to body roll, causing some loss of grip and power down. This was the case with DCC on stock MK6 Golf GTI springs. The dampers only speed up or slow down the process of body lean depending on which DCC setting was engaged. A non DCC standard MK6 Golf GTI would exhibit this trait to an even greater degree.

The genuine Volkswagen Driver Gear Sport springs that were about 8-10% firmer than standard GTI springs help reduced the body roll and lean, and reduced the inside front wheel’s desire to lift and then scrabble for grip, sharpening up the handling of the GTI with a minor detriment to ride comfort. Generally, the best way to reduce body roll & lean is to go for a firmer spring, as the firmer shock absorbers only speed up the pitching side to side or fore & aft, rather than reduce body roll & lean.

The Golf 7 GTI with a longer and wider track, a motor that sits further rearwards over the front axle, and progressive steering, makes negotiating the same set of round-a-bouts so much easier, with greater focus, a flatter chassis composure, greater speed and much less steering effort. The lighter chassis also makes a difference. Executing the same maneuvers in the Golf 7 GTI is like night & day compared to the MKV/MK6 Golf GTI for driver ease & aglity.

In the MK6 Golf GTI the driver was definitely working harder to keep the same line at a given speed through the left-right-left directional changes with the chassis flapping about to a greater degree and greater use of steering and throttle input to keep the tight lines in and out of the round-a-bout intersections. I can see how some would call the Mk6 Golf GTI more fun, and to draw analogy, it’s a bit like riding a BMX bike with greater driver (rider) effort needed for ultimately less result.

The Golf 7 GTI, especially the lighter standard manual transmission version, is more akin to stepping up from a BMX bike to a racer/hybrid bicycle with bigger frame & wheels, where the driver (rider) has a more focused machine that requires less effort for the same result, and that is ultimately faster point to point, only with the added advantage of being user friendly in city driving due to the added ride comfort & progressive rate steering that is great to use around town & in tight spaces.

One last thing, the other comments on this thread do make a valid point re: Trading up from MK6 to S3/7R. There is no use in Ray ditching his MK6 Golf R for an Audi S3 atm, as he would be taking a bath on depreciation on the 8 month old demo MK6 Golf R, which incidentally has a 4 year warranty. His plan is to run the MK6 Golf R for a while, with added refinement & quietness due to 6mm and 4mm irrigation tubing inserted into the door frame rubbers, then about 18 months out from warrant expiry date, sell to upgrade to either a Golf 7 R or Audi S3 depending on value for money equation. The Golf 7 R may be around 3-4K more than the MK6 version, and the Audi S3 is already 11K cheaper than its predecessor. It ultimately depends on what comes standard on the Golf 7 R for the expected price rise.

Volkswagen: New Cars 2014 | CarAdvice

WJ