Opinions please - Stage 1 Octavia RS or Golf R

[ccpl]

Looking for opinions please or feedback from anyone else that may have been in a similar position;

I currently have a MY17 162TSI Mk3 Octavia RS wagon which I've owned since new and its been a great car. It is however coming to the end of its factory warranty and not quite as fast as I'd like, so I've been toying up the idea of grabbing a stage 1 tune for bit of a power upgrade, but am concerned that the whole FWD scenario may blunt any real world benefits (can be hard to get the power down as it is!)

I'm also fortunate enough to own a Superb Sportline 206TSI as my business vehicle, and whilst I enjoy the extra power and AWD grip, it pales in comparison to the Octavias general handling ability and directness (even with DCC in sport mode). Being a business vehicle and still under warranty, I also don't have the luxury of modding this vehicle (unless I can sneak in a new sway bar)

As such I'm currently tossing up whether to grab a stage 1 tune for the Octavia (~$1k) or potentially trade it on a ~MY18 Golf R (~20k changeover) - neither option is all that financially sensible, but since when are enthusiast vehicles ever sensible

My thoughts thus far;

Stage 1 for Octavia

Pro's

Known quantity and history (owned since new)
Small outlay (comparatively)
Lighter (comparatively)

Con's

Still FWD
Probably less/same power than stock Golf R even with Stage 1
Older

Golf R

Pro's

AWD goodness
Handling probably just as good as Octavia (?)
Stock power is great

Con's

Unknown quantity of 2nd hand vehicle
Costlier option
Heavier and handling slightly blunted (?)

[amunra]

ur relying on someone in this forum to give you their opinion to make up your mind on spending 20k over 1k for some thrills ?

looks like u have all the pros and cons weighed up yourself why dont you get a jb4 and some small mods on your octavia for less than 1k im sure ull enjoy it the same

[Lucas_R]

After having owned both a Golf R and GTI, personally I think the front wheel drive platform is the more enjoyable option. Although the R is certainly superior in grip from a standstill, the extra weight can be felt and it dulls the overall enjoyment in my opinion.

The front wheel drive platform is more nimble, noticeably lighter and cheaper to maintain + less to go wrong.

Im sure plenty of Golf R owners will disagree with my comments, but that's my opinion.

Presumably you bought an Octavia wagon for the space/practicality. The Golf R will not have that. Do you still need that space?

If you decide to tune the Octy vRS, then consider the 034 Motorsport tune which is currently on sale. You need to purchase the tune and also the end user flashing kit which allows you to tune the car yourself at home (easy to do). Another company who offers a very similar product is Integrated Engineering which is what I have on my car. Both products are similarly priced, but with the 034 being on sale at the moment makes it the slightly cheaper option.

034 - Skoda Octavia RS162 TSI Tuning - Stage 1 & 2 ECU Tunes
– VAGPARTS Australia

034 Dynamic+ End User Flashing Kit - ECU & DSG - OBD2 TUNING KIT
– VAGPARTS Australia

[ccpl]

After having owned both a Golf R and GTI, personally I think the front wheel drive platform is the more enjoyable option. Although the R is certainly superior in grip from a standstill, the extra weight can be felt and it dulls the overall enjoyment in my opinion.

The front wheel drive platform is more nimble, noticeably lighter and cheaper to maintain + less to go wrong.

Im sure plenty of Golf R owners will disagree with my comments, but that's my opinion.

Presumably you bought an Octavia wagon for the space/practicality. The Golf R will not have that. Do you still need that space?

If you decide to tune the Octy vRS, then consider the 034 Motorsport tune which is currently on sale. You need to purchase the tune and also the end user flashing kit which allows you to tune the car yourself at home (easy to do). Another company who offers a very similar product is Integrated Engineering which is what I have on my car. Both products are similarly priced, but with the 034 being on sale at the moment makes it the slightly cheaper option.

034 - Volkswagen Golf GTI MK7 Tuning (162 kW) - Stage 1 & 2 ECU Tunes
– VAGPARTS Australia

034 Dynamic+ End User Flashing Kit - ECU & DSG - OBD2 TUNING KIT
– VAGPARTS Australia

Thanks very much for your reply.

I can definitely feel the extra weight in the Superb and it is much less fun to chuck around, though I'm not sure how much of that is to do with the less focused suspension and how much of that would translate into a Golf R with less size/weight comparatively. Appreciate your input and experience here.

I did originally buy the Octavia for its practically/space over the GTI, however now have the work vehicle which is a Superb Wagon so that's less of an issue these days.

Will look into those tunes, thanks.

[Lucas_R]

Thanks very much for your reply.

I can definitely feel the extra weight in the Superb and it is much less fun to chuck around, though I'm not sure how much of that is to do with the less focused suspension and how much of that would translate into a Golf R with less size/weight comparatively. Appreciate your input and experience here.

I did originally buy the Octavia for its practically/space over the GTI, however now have the work vehicle which is a Superb Wagon so that's less of an issue these days.

Will look into those tunes, thanks.

Gotcha. Ok well the Suberb will have ample space then. The Superb is a decent chunk heavier (around 200kg) than the Golf R so although it has the same engine and drivetrain, the weight and size difference make for a much different feeling car.

The Mk7 R in standard form is nothing special in terms of speed, but a basic ECU tune makes it go from a quickish car to a fast car. So if you decide to get one, you have to put a stage 1 ECU tune on it.

Also note that I updated one of the links in my previous post after I found a Skoda specific link for the ECU tune.

[gregozedobe]

I have a 2008 Mk2 vRS wagon and a 2017 R wagon. They have a totally different feel, but I like them both.

I prefer the planted feel and traction of the R over the more "lively" feel of the Octy. It is nice to just put your foot down and go in the R, particularly when turning onto a wet 80kmh road with traffic bearing down on you; in the Octy you need a much bigger gap in case you get the annoying FWD wheelspin (and yes, I can confirm a tune only makes that issue worse, and good tyres won't help much).

My suggestion is to take an R for an extended test drive in different conditions, and see whether you like it or not. Some people find the steady rock-solid feel of the R a bit bland and boring. Only you can decide what you prefer.

BTW a set of Koni FSD shocks (the regular Golf version, not the GTI ones) fitted to an Octy vRS makes the low speed ride quality much better, but firms up around 80kmh on Canberra's mostly fairly smooth roads

[amunra]

I have a 2008 Mk2 vRS wagon and a 2017 R wagon. They have a totally different feel, but I like them both.

I prefer the planted feel and traction of the R over the more "lively" feel of the Octy. It is nice to just put your foot down and go in the R, particularly when turning onto a wet 80kmh road with traffic bearing down on you; in the Octy you need a much bigger gap in case you get the annoying FWD wheelspin (and yes, I can confirm a tune only makes that issue worse, and good tyres won't help much).

My suggestion is to take an R for an extended test drive in different conditions, and see whether you like it or not. Some people find the steady rock-solid feel of the R a bit bland and boring. Only you can decide what you prefer.

BTW a set of Koni FSD shocks (the regular Golf version, not the GTI ones) fitted to an Octy vRS makes the low speed ride quality much better, but firms up around 80kmh on Canberra's mostly fairly smooth roads

its better to compare an R to a mk7 GTI with his 17' RS instead of a 08 RS.. very different cars by now

[gregozedobe]

its better to compare an R to a mk7 GTI with his 17' RS instead of a 08 RS.. very different cars by now

True, but the FWD vs AWD thing is still a very similar issue. Note that the OP already has an MY17 vRS so he is very knowledgeable about the vRS, that's why I suggested he take an R for a drive so he can properly compare the two cars, and make his decision based on HIS preferences.

I don't know why you are suggesting he look at a GTI, he was asking about moving from a vRS to a Golf R, not a GTI.

[ccpl]

Thanks heaps for the replies everyone. I'm still on the fence and am probably currently leaning to just starting with a Stage 1 for the Octy and see how that goes, and if the traction issues become too much maybe then heading down the Golf R route.

Anyone have any feedback around the 034 tune that Lucas_R mentioned above?

[amunra]

True, but the FWD vs AWD thing is still a very similar issue. Note that the OP already has an MY17 vRS so he is very knowledgeable about the vRS, that's why I suggested he take an R for a drive so he can properly compare the two cars, and make his decision based on HIS preferences.

I don't know why you are suggesting he look at a GTI, he was asking about moving from a vRS to a Golf R, not a GTI.

i said in this case its better to be comparing an R to a mk7 GTI ... gti is hatch and vrs is small wagon with the same gear... its a comparison that im sure plenty of people on here can give some feedback about to give the guy a better idea. as its more similar or basically the same as a my17 VR oct ...

What I dont understand is why ur comparing a my17 VR to a 08 VR for performance and feel which are different by now and would sway the OP to drop 20k extra for something that isnt much different than what he already has.


All in All there is only so much u can do on public streets to get the full enjoyment out of 4WD.. and if you feel the need to win the traffic light dragstrip.. get a tesla.... and i highly doubt ur going out to empty country roads on the regular for spirited driving... alot of people say FWD with some power is more fun to drive once u got it down as its lighter and has a bit more feel but each to their own... if i was buying a car again and wanted to save some cash would have no problem with FWD on the same platform for a daily driver.

[amunra]

Thanks heaps for the replies everyone. I'm still on the fence and am probably currently leaning to just starting with a Stage 1 for the Octy and see how that goes, and if the traction issues become too much maybe then heading down the Golf R route.

Anyone have any feedback around the 034 tune that Lucas_R mentioned above?

instead of 034 tune id suggest.

buy urself a 2nd hand JB4 box on gumtree for few hundred bucks, get a sillicon intake hose and turbo inlet elbow on ebay and u have ur stage 1+ for $500.. happy times

[amunra]

after looking at the specs and prices for discounted 034 tunes you should be looking at this.

Stage 2 98: 320 HP / 482 Nm
Crackle Map: FREE with stage 2

if your considering spending good money ($1500+) on a flash ECU/TCU tune and cable you may aswell consider adding a DP and ebay IC for $1000 extra and get stage 2 ECU flash with crackle tune ... or just save yourself some money.. JB4 lets u get stage 1+ / stage 2 results for fraction of the flash price with the same parts.. ebay intercoolers for $500ish are as good as the $1000 - $2000 ICs and has been proven by many people now over the years on this platform... DP should be $300 - $500 if you want the extra 15hp and crackle.

If your only considering a simple stage 1 flash its going to feel like a waste of money pretty quickly after you do it.. JB4 takes about 15 - 20 minutes of plugging and is pretty easy to do for a few plugs and make sure its good on the laptop.... performance wise has room for improvement depending the parts u install (DP, IC, is38 turbo e.t.c) and you can adjust your jb4 maps with your cable and laptop or phone(dongle needed) and has heaps of users and info online if you ever need help with something... If you buy some accessories from the BMS website im sure george BMS can sort you a custom tune as hes a very helpful guy to deal with.

Personally, I was considering getting a UNITRONIC self install flash $900-$1000 ECU + $800 DSG + $300 cable. = $2000+ Stage 1+ ?.. thought its a bit ridiculous for what it was and i havent even gotten to the extra bits yet..

then looked at a custom dyno ECU/DSG tune for $1500 but needed to drive to melbourne..... time, travelling, fuel e.t.c looking at again $2k+ all up

instead i decided on my pennypincher CCP roadrunner stage 1+ performance pack.

consists of a preloved basic JB4 + data cable for $250, upgraded spark plugs $80 , rs3 coil packs $100 , ebay sillicone intake hose $50, ebay turbo inlet elbow $50, alum dogbone insert & alum pendulum mount $90............. and the performance increase during spirited driving is beefier with more torque / continues to pull at the top end.... its a good improvment over stock but after a while... not exactly mind blowing tbh and glad i didnt spend $1000 - $2000 on flash tunes alone... but definately worth doing, more fun than stock and should have been like this from factory ...

also keep in mind alot of the performance improvements cant be enjoyed at all times and around every corner especially in traffic or the city because you really need to be on it to feel the improvements.. simply not possible with daily commuting / traffic .. more for a good track day and back to normal life .... but general driveability / throttle response / enjoyment during commuting is better and obviously small squirts or an open road is fun and all up improves what the mqb is capable of.as its restricted from factory... can imagine it would liven up your skoda gti wagon considerably for you to like it and improved drivability on the freeway while ur already rolling.

if you haggle these guys on ebay for a better price on an IC which is possible (did that myself).. then its worth installing the IC (easy home job) if your going with tuning, i imagine your IC is pretty lousy as the standard R ic is not so good and GTI much worse. and after some spirited driving or track time will start to heat soak quickly and all your performance will be gone.

Tube&Fin Intercooler Kit For Audi A3/S3 / VW Golf GTI R MK7 EA888 1.8T 2.0T TSI | eBay

thats my opinion

[Lucas_R]

amunra dont forget that the JB1/JB4 has been proven on the dyno to be good bang for buck (especially if purchased 2nd hand) but the gains they provide are about 60-70% of a proper flash tune (eg a MK7 Golf R with a JB4 will get around 205-210kw at the wheels, whereas the same car with a flash tune will have around 230kw at the wheels). A stock Mk7 R will have around 180kw at the wheels, so the JB4 will get you approx 25-30kw whereas a flash tune will get you around 50kw at the wheels gain.

[Lucas_R]

Thanks heaps for the replies everyone. I'm still on the fence and am probably currently leaning to just starting with a Stage 1 for the Octy and see how that goes, and if the traction issues become too much maybe then heading down the Golf R route.

Anyone have any feedback around the 034 tune that Lucas_R mentioned above?

If you decide to go with a stage 1 tune (regardless of which brand you choose) then I would highly suggest buying one of the "dog bone inserts" which helps reduce movement in the lower engine mount and therefore reduces wheel spin (and the wheelspin you do still get is nice and smooth and doesnt shake the hell out of the car).

You will need to check your car as to which version you require (there are 2x types depending on the shape of your factory fitted lower engine mount - refer to the photos).

034 Billet Aluminium Dogbone Mount Insert - MQB MK7 GTI/R/S3/RS3/TT/TTS
– VAGPARTS Australia

034 Motorsport Billet Aluminum MQB Dogbone Mount Insert, Mk7 GTI/R/S3/RS3/TT/TTRS
– VAGPARTS Australia

[amunra]

If you decide to go with a stage 1 tune (regardless of which brand you choose) then I would highly suggest buying one of the "dog bone inserts" which helps reduce movement in the lower engine mount and therefore reduces wheel spin (and the wheelspin you do still get is nice and smooth and doesnt shake the hell out of the car).

You will need to check your car as to which version you require (there are 2x types depending on the shape of your factory fitted lower engine mount - refer to the photos).

034 Billet Aluminium Dogbone Mount Insert - MQB MK7 GTI/R/S3/RS3/TT/TTS
– VAGPARTS Australia

034 Motorsport Billet Aluminum MQB Dogbone Mount Insert, Mk7 GTI/R/S3/RS3/TT/TTRS
– VAGPARTS Australia

yeh i think the 0 - 100 and drag times are nearly identical though, i think with custom tuning you can crank out more hp but it wont be much.

you can get the same dogbone inserts on ebay for $30