Rear sway bar for MK6 Golf GTI

[botisto]

Hey all I’m not yet an owner but am well on the path of finally giving up RWD and finding myself a nice comfy 3dr manual MK6 Golf GTI. One thing I haven’t been able to work out from test drives however is how the ESP works and how to get the things to oversteer. I’ve searched through many forms but haven’t been able to find good info on this short of safety debates. And to skip said standard oversteer safety debate I love cars so am half way through studying mechanical engineering and learnt to drive on a civic type R. My last three cars have been NA MX-5s, and I somehow managed to turn my current one into a track only drift car. While that’s been a lot of fun I’ve grown very sick of zero storage space and the ride comfort of a cramped rock without air con….

Skipping to the question, I can’t handle an understeering car so am very keen to know what it take to make a MK6 GTI naturally oversteer? I don’t want to ruin the ride comfort or height again so figured a larger rear sway bar would be my best bet. And If I can get a 3 way adjustable one that I can tune between lift off only oversteer on the soft adjustment to always oversteering on the limit at the stiffer adjustment I’d be very happy with my golf proposition. Does anyone know what diameter rear bar would achieve this?

And with the ESP on will the car allow me at least to get the rear out a little for better turn in? Or is this at least possible with the ESP off? I've heard these stability controls can’t be turned off completely and this won’t bother me if the car at least allows a bit of rear end wiggling and playfulness. Thanks in advance for any help, and I’m looking forward to joining the community!

[nat225]

ESP you can't turn it off, only the traction control can be turned off which is useful enough when you want to play a little bit. BUT, to get the rear wiggling or even to play on a skid pan with sideway actions.. mk6 gti is not the one, the ESP will ensure that you stay safe

is saying that, with the right direction and tricks, the esp should be able to be fully disabled before you can do anything like below:

below is everything you can find about sway bars for golf mk6:

Official Sway Bar Discussion Thread - VW GTI MKVI Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVI Forum / VW GTI Forum - Golfmk6.com

or if you want to beyond sway bars, below is full of info:

WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com

[botisto]

Cheers for those links, that's pretty impressive what you do with the ESP off. Looks like working out a method of disabling it will be towards the top of my list then...

And some great suspension stats there, but i still cant find specifically relating to balance for what I'm after. Might try contacting some sway bar manufacturers as well, see what they have to say

[AdamD]

Cheers for those links, that's pretty impressive what you do with the ESP off. Looks like working out a method of disabling it will be towards the top of my list then...

Temporarily disabling the ESP can possibly be done on GTIs with a later-model ABS controller shared with the Golf R (IIRC from MY12 cars onwards), although you will need to make coding changes to the ABS control module using VCDS, and I don't believe anyone's confirmed it definitely works on Australian-delivered cars. On pre-MY2012 GTIs it's theoretically possible to defeat the ESP (I know that APR have done it), but the information on how to do so is not readily available, it generates errors galore on the dash, and apparently you lose other systems in the process.

Realistically, if you're looking for a rear-adjustable FWD hot hatch, you should be looking at a RenaultSport Megane 265, or maybe a Focus ST. It will be too difficult for you to get anything like real tail-adjustability at less than 9/10ths in a GTI, IMO. It's just not in the Golf's make-up. A mate of mine (who came from an NA MX-5 and an R32 GTR) drove my car and found it far too clinical for his liking; he bought an NB MX-5 SP, and got his oversteer.

[Martin]

The understeer is inherent in the design of the car - engine in front of shocks, weight distribution, etc
Modifing a FWD car to oversteer will have consequences, lift off into corner may be hard to catch the rear, and when the rear stops swinging it may well bite hard causing further problems
Sounds like you're up for it however...

[Tim]

Oversteering isnt the quickest way around a corner in a fwd car. What you generally want to achieve is a nicer balance that allows you to play with the brake/throttle to adjust balance. The stock configuration errs on the side of caution so the car will start understeering long before you get into any real trouble. The stiffer you go the less warning you will get before you fire off backwards into a tree.

Ive driven cars with 22, 24 and 28mm rear bars on a GTI and the middle is much nicer. 28mm is just a bit too prone to snap oversteer unless coupled with other modifications that neutralise it a bit such as lowered suspension or an upgraded front swaybar.

Snap oversteer may sound like fun at low speed but a slight dab of the brakes mid corner to adjust your line when traveling at 100km/h isnt much fun if the tail end kicks out.

If youre in the market we have had some good results from the SPM swaybars which may be worth a look.
SPM MK5/6 GTI Rear Swaybar Bar [SU10-600Z-KN11-00] - $279.00 : Dub Ad·dic·tion [duhb uh-dik-shuhn]

[Guy_H]

Good advice from the posters above. If you want an oversteering car, sell your Golf (or your EVO or WRX) and buy a Toyota 86.

Put a larger front sway bar on (stops weight transfer to the front outer wheel), run 3-4 psi less pressure in the front than the rear. Get your front camber to ~ 2.5 & work on the wheel alignment and the car will be totally different to drive.

If you have adjustable coil overs, get the car corner weighted. By lowering the rear, you pull weight off the front (and in combination with a stiffer front bar), you will all but eliminate understeer under most circumstances. Drive some of the Golf's in our current stable & you will see what we mean.

[Guy_H]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...83611167583867



This was our Polo 6R - but gives you an idea of the fun you can have under controlled conditions!

[botisto]

Right, some good points here and I think Adam hit the nail on the head. Fair enough that aiming for a tail happy golf probably isn't a great plan. I had a good drive of a mates golf gti and while overall it was an amazing car I didn't find the balance or handling characteristics enjoyable at all, I could only manage understeer. Ford hot hatches could be a great alternative with that stock oversteer, but I just love the VW fastidiousness and refinement. I'm sure another MX-5 or 86 will be in the garage someday but It's time for something more useful and grown up.

Going to all that effort to disable ESC and then losing other systems with it doesn't sound like a good option either. Can you at least pull out the fuse for some fun at the track and put it back in after without ruining everything?

Looking at the added stiffness from stock, a 24 mm rear sway bar alone seems like it would make a significant difference, and by what Tim said it sounds like a pretty good option. If a configuration like that (with ESC on) allows a more playful character and the ability to somewhat shift the balance and attitude via the brakes and throttle without just understeering that might just be enough to keep me from boredom. I think as long as I can modulate and feel the balance and weight shifting in the car to allow for better turn in etc I'll be happy.

Haha looks like mad fun in that Polo! I drove a couple of them and was amazed at that engine

[Lucas_R]

I drove a couple of them (Polo GTI) and was amazed at that engine

Until it blows up 2 weeks later and uses more oil than fuel.

[pologti18t]

How about this...

Adjustable ESP

AutoSpeed - Adjustable Stability Control!

[AdamD]

Looking at the added stiffness from stock, a 24 mm rear sway bar alone seems like it would make a significant difference, and by what Tim said it sounds like a pretty good option. If a configuration like that (with ESC on) allows a more playful character and the ability to somewhat shift the balance and attitude via the brakes and throttle without just understeering that might just be enough to keep me from boredom. I think as long as I can modulate and feel the balance and weight shifting in the car to allow for better turn in etc I'll be happy.

Maybe have a chat to Guy (Harding Performance), and other members in your area (the QLD guys do regular meet-ups and happy-laps once a month or more), and see if anyone has their Golf set up more neutrally. Then score yourself a drive and see if a car with these mods would meet your needs?

[botisto]

Yea thanks Adam I'll see if I can sort out a drive. Handling must be one of the most subjective traits and there is only so much you can work out without actually driving the thing

[Adi29]

Hi All,
I have a stock Mk 6 Gti and am looking to improve the handling without compromising the ride during my daily drive (which on Brissie roads can vary from smooth highway to rutted potholed streets).I'm not planning to take my car on a track but wouldn't mind trying to counter roll and eliminate understeer. From reading various threads, it seems that sway bars seems the way to go. Just wanted to get some advice as to which one would be best suited to what I want to do. Far as I can see, HR and Whiteline seem to be the ones to go for but I've been told HR is more track oriented so might be a little too stiff for daily driving. Also, would getting both a front and rear set be better than just a rear ?

[Martin]

Roll bars are a free win - stiffer roll bars don't make the ride harsh in a straight line - but do both to maintain front/rear balance