Two stage accelerator?

[kevvie]

Earlier this week I pulled out into traffic and had to get a move on a bit more than I thought - I floored the accelerator and noticed there is an extra bit of give at the end of the travel...also noticed it didn't change up until over 7k RPM.

Is this a feature?

[The_Hawk]

Our van does the same thing, it's like there is a "normal" travel portion of the pedal then a harder spring at the bottom. I asked this a while back and was told this was the kick down switch, which makes some sense, but I haven't confirmed.

[MiiLos]

i had the same in my 05 TDi.

[Corey_R]

Earlier this week I pulled out into traffic and had to get a move on a bit more than I thought - I floored the accelerator and noticed there is an extra bit of give at the end of the travel...also noticed it didn't change up until over 7k RPM.

Is this a feature?

Yep, as documented in your owners manual, 100% throttle comes at a "resistance point", not "on the floor". If you push further than this, you will hit the kickdown switch. This will cause your car to downshift, even in "M mode" on the gearbox.

The complaint that many people have about M mode not being completely manual is due to them not understanding this feature, or not being able to use their right foot correctly. Some people even put "stoppers" under the pedal so they can mash it as much as they want and the kickdown switch cannot be trigger.

[kevvie]

Thanks Corey. I read the manual again after your post and probably understand why some people would not pick that up, it's not particularly specific - when I read it the first time I just assumed that it would kick down if I floored it, like a normal automatic, and didn't realise there were two stages of pedal travel before "full throttle" is reached.

Now that I know more I have played around a bit. What I also found interesting is that it will drop down a couple of gears in "manual mode" and go well into the red zone on the tacho before changing back up to the gear I was originally in - I saw at least 7000 RPM today vs a 6000 RPM red line.

[Corey_R]

Yeah, the manual isn't the clearest of things.

I just wanted to clarify though some of the wording in your post in relation to the "two stages of pedal travel before "full throttle" is reached."
Effectively there isn't two stages. Only 1. The 2nd stage does not apply any more throttle. It only engages the kick down.

Thus, if you push your foot down until you get resistance, then you have 100% throttle or "Wide Open Throttle" as some people might call it. Any further, and you get kick down - which may in fact kick down 2 or 3 gears depending on the situation. And yes, it can go well into the redline. You should really be changing gear up yourself when you're in M anyway...

[stickshift3000]

This features on nearly all auto cars produced in the last 25 years....

[Corey_R]

No it's not. You misunderstand what is being discussed.

We're not talking about driving along in D, having 5% throttle and you pushing the pedal down to 50%, and the gearbox dropping a gear.

We're talking about driving around in Manual, having the pedal already pushed down to 100% throttle, then pushing the pedal further down past the resistance point and hitting an ACTUAL BUTTON UNDERNEATH THE PEDAL. That button is what tells the car to "kickdown" even though you're in manual.

[elephino]

No it's not. You misunderstand what is being discussed.

We're not talking about driving along in D, having 5% throttle and you pushing the pedal down to 50%, and the gearbox dropping a gear.

We're talking about driving around in Manual, having the pedal already pushed down to 100% throttle, then pushing the pedal further down past the resistance point and hitting an ACTUAL BUTTON UNDERNEATH THE PEDAL. That button is what tells the car to "kickdown" even though you're in manual.

Most autos I've driven have the same or similar button in the same place.

[Corey_R]

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I've never driven and auto with one. I've driven Autos from Toyota, Holden, Ford, BMW, Mini, Suzuki, Hyundai, the list goes on. And even most dyno operators have never come across one, nor most car enthusiasts, since in almost every single "dyno thread" or "DSG" thread on these forums, someone complains about how the DSG won't stay in gear even in Manual, and someone has to then explain about this button underneath the accelerator pedal, and then people are surprised.

So if "most autos" have actually had them (and not just your last car), this would then mean that "most people" here are ignorant, and "most dyno operators" are ignorant. And I'm sure that none of those are the case.

[MkVIGTI]

I know Toyota, Honda and Mitsubishi don't have it either. Some have an O/D switch on the gear lever though. But then again, the manual mode of the dsg will still shift up when the engine reaches cut-out.

[stickshift3000]

I think you guys need to get out and drive more cars.

The kickdown button behind the pedal used to be common in older cars, instead nowadays it often relies on throttle position and ecu parameters (revs, load etc) on most newer cars.

[TomC]

What would the point of a kick down switch in an automatic car be anyway? In a full auto box, it will kick down gears automatically when you apply more throttle in any situation, it won't "hold" a higher gear in place like the M mode in DSG will. The only way an auto box will hold a gear is if you specifically change into a lower on the selector. No auto box should hold a higher gear when you apply more throttle because by applying more throttle you're telling the gearbox you want to go faster, hence it changes down accordingly. I drove my old man's 335i last weekend and even with the auto in his car in "manual" mode, it will still kick down when you mash the throttle. That's why the manual mode in DSG is so good, because it's not just an auto gearbox with paddles

So, along with never experiencing a kickdown switch in an auto car myself, I find it logically pointless to have one in an auto car.

[pologti18t]

What would the point of a kick down switch in an automatic car be anyway? In a full auto box, it will kick down gears automatically when you apply more throttle in any situation, it won't "hold" a higher gear in place like the M mode in DSG will. The

because in the olden days the transmission didn't know what the throttle position was - cable operated throttles.
The kickdown switch forced the transmission to shift down gears immediately rather than wait for it to respond based on other parameters.

[Corey_R]

Yeah... so I've been finding some information on what era of cars we're talking about here, and most are pre-90s even. So it's not just a case of driving more cars, it's a case of being in your 40's or 50's and being old enough to remember when electronics were primative etc.

In any case, none of that has any relation to what we're talking here because the "kickdown switch" in a VW is NOT for automatic modes, it's for "manual".