Over assisted / servoed / sensitive brakes

[oldngrey]

Hi,
I am or was at the point of buying a new Golf 118TSI Comfortline DSG, but there is a major flaw with the test car I drove the other day.

This flaw turned a very impressive car into one we could not own.

The brakes were very over-assisted. It seemed to require less than half the pedal pressure to achieve the same amount of braking I am used to and I have driven a lot of cars over the years. This led to the brakes being hard to modulate coming to a complete stop resulting in feeling slightly ill when the car grabbed to a halt repeatedly.

Despite driving it as carefully as I could, I achieved only partial sucess but my wife was totally unable to stop smoothly and she was unable to agree to wanting the car.

I did a search on these forums the other day and found only one person mentioning the brakes feeling over-assisted. Google found nothing else.

So, to all those proud 118TSI drivers, did I drive a typical car or a bad one?
Also....... anyone know if any master cylinder valves etc can be changed to make it easier to drive?

Thanks in advance,
Steve.

[ozgti]

Yep. They are all like that. A major flaw in my books. I still can't drive it smoothly! They grab too quickly and with differing pressures too. I find I brake early and coast to the stop, then it's ok. You can judge it better/ make it smoother at lower speeds. My GF has the same complaint.

[nat225]

My wife had a Mk6 118TSI before... with regards to the brakes, it depends on what other cars you're comparing it to. If compared to Japanese cars, the Golf's brake pedal is obviously shallower and you can feel a lot more bite with little brake pedal travel.

The Mk6 GTI brake is similar. So, if you think the Golf is for you and you like it, then i think you'll get used to the brake after a while.

[bm2amb]

The one I tested drive (118TSI) and loan car (TDI) was bit over as well.

But my 118TSI is fine, just like normal.

Maybe dealer could help to reset the break setting in ECU !?

[Corey_R]

My MKV Golf GTI also had brakes such as the OP describes. However, I quickly adjusted to them and then came to prefer it - you just had to remember to give forward-warning to anyone else who may get into the drivers seat to have a go.
My Polo GTI was about half way between previous Toyotas and the Golf.
My Golf 6 seems about the same as the Polo, but with much better feel at the limits of its braking. Maybe it too would be a shock for the OP to drive and I'm just used to it now that it isn't even noticable anymore...


As for never seeing anyone talk about it - it has been mentioned in several threads here, just no one had created a specific thread about it.
I've also seen it mentioned in a few motoring reviews - but no one had gone so far as calling it a major design fault or saying that it's dangerous etc.

[Mr_Bob]

I don't notice it as much in the R as i did in the Polo (9N),
light pedal use hardly slowed the car, a little extra and you pull up quite aggressively.
Perhaps the additional weight of the R isn't as easily influenced by the more aggressive stage.
(I'm also driving it more aggressively so i'm prepared for it)

I recall someone mentioning that the VW brakes trigger the rears first to improve stability?
this seemed to explain the behaviour, light pedal use only engaged the rears.

After a period of time, i ignored the first braking stage, and treated the 2nd stage as the take-up point.
this seemed to be smoother, but it was still difficult to modulate as well as i can in other cars.

[Frankenstrat]

It caught me out a couple of times, but after almost a year, I'm used to the sensitive brakes. Now when I hop into my daughter's Barina or my wife's Pulsar... woah! Heavy braking required. As for my son's Camry, I think they forgot to hook up the vacuum assist.

There is no way that I would regard the Golf's brake sensitivity as a "major flaw".

[Umai Naa!!]

Same old story...

The brakes aren't over-assisted. You're just not used to having a car with brakes that actually work effectively.

[kaanage]

No way. They are over assisted compared to other cars - sensitivity has nothing to do with braking efficiency.

There have been a fair number of posts about the MkVI TDi having over assisted brakes - from those posts, I thought that it was an issue limited to the TDi.

Sure, you get used to the sensitivity if you ONLY drive the Golf but when switching cars, it is a pain.

Strangely, given Mr Bob's experience, I find my 9N3 has a very normal pedal feel - but maybe the R has a more progressive brake feel.

[AdamD]

My GTI's brakes are very heavily assisted, and I notice a significant difference when switching between it and the two MkV FSIs I drive. A mate drove my car a few days back and took some time to get used to the pedal pressure required. No question, they're touchy. I am used to it myself now, and don't have any issues dialling up the right pressure smoothly.

I've also heard that rear discs are routinely changed at 30,000km? And the fronts not long after? Coming from Hondas that (normally) go through discs in 100-150k, this was a bit of a shock. And don't get me started on the brake dust...

[Umai Naa!!]

You guys make it sound like the car is deffective, when it clearly isn't.

There's no routine disc change, although it is recommended when the pads are replaced, as they're meant to wear in unison.

[kaanage]

It's not defective but it is a MAJOR weakness as the OP stated, IF you often switch between different cars.
If you pretty much exclusively drive a MkVI Golf, then you do adapt quickly enough

Change rotors and pads at the same time?? That's a very soft disc. Maybe harder aftermarket discs would be the solution for those of us who find the brakes overservoed.

[Umai Naa!!]

I don't understand how having perfectly functioning brakes is considered a weakness. Having a dull pedal, with no feedback, and long travel would be an issue.

The discs are soft, because they're designed to wear, to maximise the effectiveness of the braking system.

Maybe one people will stop using non-European cars as a yardstick for everything else.

[ozgti]

It is because of the brake assist. I drove my MK2 with 280mm brakes and standard Master Cylinder and yes, the brakes are very touchy when you swap between cars.

[brad]

The brakes are sensitive but I've never had an issue getting used to them. I don't think they are as grabby as an XA Falcon was or a drum brake Holden with VH44 booster. I regulary jump out of my car & into a Calais or a Corolla & don't have an issue. In the past I'd regularly drive up to 20 different cars a day so maybe I adapt well.

What I have found is that as time goes on, the brakes lose their bite. This "bite" returns after the brakes are bled or have all the dust blasted out of them with a pressure washer.

I'd much rather the VW brakes that stop than the brakes in our Calais - many a time I have been very concerned about the Calais' ability to perform a simple stop from 60kmh. The foot is buried in the firewall & there doesn't appear to be any retardation happening.