Golf R in Motor Mag this month in Perfomance Comparo

[weewilly]

Hmmm, quite a few fanbois out in force.

The Golf R is a great car - hell, after all the cars I test drove it's what I decided on - but it is also slightly compromised in some respects. It's not an out and out track car and will always suffer when compared to those. However, where they get 9/10 for track they might only get 5/10 for day to day stuff. The Golf R is a solid 7.5-8 for both. That's why I'm getting it because that is what I want.

But don't delude yourself that no other manufacturer makes good cars. Performance french cars are amazing. They picked up the mantle after Golf's got pudgy and slow. They still do it damn well and should be respected for that.

If you don't personally feel they are right for you, don't get one. But don't dismiss them because they don't have the right badge.

the tune test is time....

[Ideo]

And how will that change the fact that at or near the limit, on a track, the Megane is simply a more engaging car?

[sabloke]

Exactly, time is a very good test. I know Clio drivers that bought them new many, many years ago and still drive them today. Why? Because they love'em. I can't see myself selling mine in a hurry. What would I get if I was? Can't afford a Cayman now and pretty sure that would still be the case in 4 years time.
Now, I wouldn't say that VW owners don't love their cars just as much. However, I don't know any Golf GTI or VR owners that owned the car from new for 5 or more years. If you only own the R for 2-3 years and then upgrade you can't really make a judgment, can you?

[Danny]

but that is what I want out of a car, not just pure speed -would have gone US muscle or Oz grunt. I want comfort, appointment and NO rattles after 20K. The Renault will NOT pass the test of time. It can't because the French don't know how to build a car. Similarly to Ozzy if the truth be known... Propping up an industry that should have been aloud to die a natural death like the clothing and other manufacturing industries that simply can not be sustained with a $16.50 per hour wage and 9% mandatory super. Drove a 2010 Holden Statesmen a couple of weeks ago. A national disgrace.

Mate where the F do you get your opinion from? What the HELL do you mean "the French don't know how to build a car"?

I bought brand new off the showroom floor a Clio Renaultsport 182 Cup back in 06' I sold it in October 10' to make way for my R. In those 4 years, there were no rattles, no bits falling off, and No major problems. The car was a dream in the garage, on the road, and through the bends. With 6.7 0-100 figures mine was getting, it held its own against many more expensive sports cars too.

Blokes on OZRS have 2001 model 172's that are still going like they day they were bought with no major issues with near 200,000k on their clocks. Pug GTi 1.9's from the 80's are still getting around enjoying a cult status.

We also have An 08 BMW X5 3.0sd Sport Exec in our garage that the clio used to sit next to. Mate have a guess which one had more warranty issues.....

Oh and Fab, I'll be definitely needing you as my performance consultant now! Lets see what can be done with a Manual R and determination!!

[Angryman]

Mate where the F do you get your opinion from? What the HELL do you mean "the French don't know how to build a car"?

I bought brand new off the showroom floor a Clio Renaultsport 182 Cup back in 06' I sold it in October 10' to make way for my R. In those 4 years, there were no rattles, no bits falling off, and No major problems. The car was a dream in the garage, on the road, and through the bends. With 6.7 0-100 figures mine was getting, it held its own against many more expensive sports cars too.

Blokes on OZRS have 2001 model 172's that are still going like they day they were bought with no major issues with near 200,000k on their clocks. Pug GTi 1.9's from the 80's are still getting around enjoying a cult status.

We also have An 08 BMW X5 3.0sd Sport Exec in our garage that the clio used to sit next to. Mate have a guess which one had more warranty issues.....

Oh and Fab, I'll be definitely needing you as my performance consultant now! Lets see what can be done with a Manual R and determination!!

I'll second that - may seem deluded of me but my 3 year old GT Sport Tdi has been on the back of a tow truck twice in three years with major mechanical problems - thank god for warranty - but I still just bought a Golf R and a 147 Tiguan!. I'm also not sure where the french cant build thingy comes from...

[Pepe]

I bought brand new off the showroom floor a Clio Renaultsport 182 Cup back in 06' I sold it in October 10' to make way for my R. In those 4 years, there were no rattles, no bits falling off, and No major problems. The car was a dream in the garage, on the road, and through the bends.

2 sides to every story... a mate of mine had an 04 Clio Sport (I think) and the door literally fell off going around a corner... sometimes, the rumours are based on reality.

[Corey_R]

I'll second that - may seem deluded of me but my 3 year old GT Sport Tdi has been on the back of a tow truck twice in three years with major mechanical problems - thank god for warranty - but I still just bought a Golf R and a 147 Tiguan!. I'm also not sure where the french cant build thingy comes from...

It comes from the french regularly being at the bottom of European owner surveys. Those who have watched Top Gear (from before Hamsters crash, when they used to do actual car reviews etc) will remember that in the Top Gear owner surveys, the French manufacturers were always the laughing stock of the surveys...

Things can change though. Just look at Toyota hehe

[sabloke]

That's what happens when the car generates over 1.0 G in corners Hard to believe though and you don't even seem to know what car your mate had. Even admitting it happened, does that mean all Renaults are flimsy? Just because a few people died in US killed by their Toyotas, does it mean their cars are dangerous and punters should stop buying them? Never mind... They suck anyway...

Renault should not be confused with Renault Sport. Truth is, a 1.6 Golf has way more in common with an R than any Renault with their Renault Sport relatives. The RS models are made exclusively in one factory in France, with everything from chassis and engine being unique to the sport models. Truth is, I wouldn't buy a vanilla Renault but then I wouldn't touch anything VW slower than a GTI or R, either. I love the extremes!

Since you mentioned the TG customer satisfaction survey, would you care telling us where VW sits?

PS: just checked, VW is 19/35. Not exactly stellar then.

[Ideo]

It comes from the french regularly being at the bottom of European owner surveys. Those who have watched Top Gear (from before Hamsters crash, when they used to do actual car reviews etc) will remember that in the Top Gear owner surveys, the French manufacturers were always the laughing stock of the surveys...

Things can change though. Just look at Toyota hehe

The least satisifed car owners in either the Top Gear or JD Power or similar in the UK were Audi A5 owners. VW AG is not without their faults

Both Audi and VW do have their issues, as do every car makers - I even know Lexus owners who have had issues.

But it is important to put a difference between Renault and RenaultSport.

No point being blind to faults because of badge loyalty. RenaultSport and hot Pugs from the 80s and 90s (not sold on the 206GTi sorry) have their place and are some of the best handling FWD cars in the world. Only the Integra Type R DC2 comes close.

[Corey_R]

Actually, Pug and Citreon and Reno were the bottom three in this particular year I was talking about (before Richard's crash... come on guys, the cars you're talking about didn't even exist back then!)

In any case, it's more than just that which has given French cars a reputation for falling apart. Justified or otherwise, they have it.

[Ideo]

Gotcha. Yeah, they have some issues (or character, as Alfa owners may claim), but they do drive bloody brilliant. There is no denying that.

Still have a fair bit of love for them though.

[dave_r]

Bit of pot calling kettle black going on here. Apparently R owners were getting their nose out of joint, then a flood of frogs rush in to protect their dear clito. Not sure whose worse hehe!

As has been mentioned, the reviews should be run your best (which is DSG), they didn't so the results are less than optimal. But its a review none the less with what was available on the day.

The R wasn't the best on the day, end of story. But would I buy a french car instead? LOL no. As also mentioned, 2 sides to every story. My friend/family experience with cars from VAG are far more positive than those with Pug/Renaults.

There isn't always a right and wrong, its the nature of experience and opinion!

[triode12]

They are all crap Euro cars!
Cherry, Geely and Great Wall FTW!

[Pepe]

They are all crap Euro cars!
Cherry, Geely and Great Wall FTW!

I can just see it...

"If you've just paid around $60k for a new Turbo charged AWD hatchback, we're sorry, and so will you be."

Great Wall X240 - Great Wall Motors, Australia

[MkVIGTI]

LOL at the reference to the Chinese cars, they are still in their early days. Give them a few years and they will be right up there with the Japs.

Anyways here's an interesting video of the Golf R vs the Cupra R from 5th Gear, enjoy: YouTube - VW Golf-R vs Leon Cupra-R 5th Gear.wmv