RNS510 cost-justified?

[VeedubTSI]

As I just noticed with Dubya's dp that's an Mk5 GTI (to state the damn obvious). Does anyone know if there may be any trouble getting the RNS-510 to work with the MFD in the GTI? Cos having the directions on your MFD is real handy. I've seen mk5s with sat nav but I'm pretty sure it wasn't the RNS-510 or was it?

[dave_r]

Given the lack of R's on their way into the country at the moment unsold its unlikely any dealer will remove an option to sell the car as there are people willing to take it as is.

Not true. I was offered a car for launch day if I was willing to live without a sunroof which had RNS510 installed. They were happy to have it removed if I wanted the car.

Yes they could sell it without the extra work, but they were attempting to fill my order as best as they could which I think was a good effort on their part.

[Corey_R]

As I just noticed with Dubya's dp that's an Mk5 GTI (to state the damn obvious). Does anyone know if there may be any trouble getting the RNS-510 to work with the MFD in the GTI? Cos having the directions on your MFD is real handy. I've seen mk5s with sat nav but I'm pretty sure it wasn't the RNS-510 or was it?

Off the top of my head, the MKV had 3 Sat Navs. An original CD based version which was terrible, a DVD based version (which I had on my short lived MKV) which was alright, and at the very end of the run, the RNS-510. So the RNS-510 can work in the MKV, however, if you are purchasing one aftermarket, I'm sure that there are possibly things to be aware of (such as certain revisions of the RNS-510 only being suitable for Red vs White MFD's, and if not, at least recoding being required to adapt for the relevant MFD).

However, Dubya is finally considering an 'upgrade' to a MK6 GTI, so for the purpose of this thread, we can all assume that the target car is a MK6.

[pologti18t]

Here is a RNS review on CNET:
Volkswagen RNS510 Review - Car Entertainment

[team_v]

If the RNS had the full functionality that is was made for i would say it is worth the money.
I just don't see the point in shelling out 2.5k for something that only has half of hte functions that the rest of the world gets.

If you want one, i would get one from ebay and install it post purchase.

If you are okay using aftermarket, Pioneer or Zenec make integrated units.

[Corey_R]

If the RNS had the full functionality that is was made for i would say it is worth the money.
I just don't see the point in shelling out 2.5k for something that only has half of hte functions that the rest of the world gets.

Whilst I'm too annoyed that there is this divide between the car manufacturers units and aftermarket (in relation to the maps and the information offered), it's not like this is just a VW issue. It's an issue with all car manufacturers that I've bothered looking at. Also, in relation to other comparable manufacturers, the RNS-510 is one of the cheapest solutions. Have a look at the cost of the Audi, BMW, Merc, systems etc.

Whilst it is true that some lower cost cars are now coming with Sat Nav systems for "free", their quality varies greatly. The Mitsubishi Lancer Aspire looks like they've just "glued" a large taiwanese GPS screen to the middle of the dash. The Mazda 3 has this tiny little screen set so far back in the dash that it may as well be a 1" screen (and is only about 3.5"), etc etc.

So compared to other car manufacturers solutions, the RNS-510 is not only quite well featured, but also great value.

[The_Hawk]

I don't know what Tom Tom or Navman or any of the other big names haven't gone down the double din integrated path. Surely it can't be all that hard to mate a full featured unit with a CD/DVD player and hard mount it. Sure you need to keep the car companies onside to get it fully integrated, but even if it's not, I don't know that you would be missing a lot besides steering wheel controls and maybe some info in the MFD.

We have a Pioneer AVIC in our van and besides a few small niggling issues that should be sorted this week it's a great unit. It was the same sort of cost as the RNS-510 but included full bluetooth, iPod and reversing camera. Yes it's bloody expensive and yes most of the features can be obtained much cheaper on the stand alone unit, but having it all "just there" without extra wiring or stuff on the dash is great. I don't know that I would get another new car without some sort of integrated solution.

When it comes to the Pioneer the addition of bluetooth and iPod make the cost look a lot more reasonable (since they are still options as far as I know with the RNS).



BUT... bottom line I would swap it in a second for a Tomtom based unit since I prefer the way it all works (after using a portable unit for a couple of years). Why is there such a big gap? Why haven't any of the car makers partnered with one of the big names to integrate their software? One day we might all find out

[elisiX]

Worth it IMO.

While I certainly don't use the Navigation on a regular basis - it's regular enough ( every 2 - 3 months perhaps ) for me to want to have it there.

[Corey_R]

Why haven't any of the car makers partnered with one of the big names to integrate their software? One day we might all find out

Well this is what I don't understand either. I mean, the maps and POI data all come from the one company, Sensis, whether you get a Tom Tom, Garmin, Navman, or any of the car manufacturers intergrated units. Yet all the "cost price" of the Nav dvds for all the car companies is multiple times more expensive than the portable brands, and the "map coverage" and "up-to-date-ness" vary greatly, and additional features such as speed cameras, speed zone limits, are not included.

I find it hard to believe that not a single car manufacturer has thought it a good idea to offer the same features as the portable units. I mean, why wouldn't Audi do this so they can advertise this as a feature of theirs over BMW etc? Therefore I truly wonder whether there is some kinda "contract" between the portable vendors and Sensis to prevent the car manufacturers from offering these features in order to protect the portable industry!

It totally wouldn't surprise me....

[team_v]

Hawk, Suzuki and Nissan are recalling some of their models fitted with a Garmin device due to fire hazards:
Fire Hazard from Garmin Nuvi Prompts Recalls from Suzuki and Nissan - Carscoop


And coreying, it does come in well compared to other factory nav units (cheaper than top end and more functional/aesthetic than the low end) which is why it's very good value to source one from ebay.


The Zenec and Pioneer units do give extra functionality in the one unit (inbuilt bluetooth, MDI etc) but for most people the ebay RNS will be more than enough.

Would be interesting to see if the RNS315 can be retrofitted as it would be cheaper still.

[pologti18t]

VW's offshoot, Seat, offers aftermarket GPS units as options and povides a fixed mounting point in the dashboard for it (powered).

The reason Tom Tom etc don't provide a double din solution is simple... there is no market for it!
People rarely upgrade their car stereos anymore the stocks are quite good enough. I can't see people forking out thousands for an aftermarket system.

[The_Hawk]

I can't see people forking out thousands for an aftermarket system.

While Pioneer have enough market coverage in the low end to subsidise their 'high end' double DIN units, I'm sure they still sell enough of the big units to justify making them anyway, even with the price tag. That aside, there is always the OEM market. You often see Blaupunkt or Clarion supplying the OEM unit, there is no reason why one of the Nav makers couldn't broker a deal along those lines to get some volume. They could then use that volume to allow for aftermarket versions of the same base systems.

Another example for Pioneer is that they integrate "Parrot" bluetooth into their car audio gear... why not Tomtom nav too?


I do agree that the stock unit is more than capable these days, after you have bluetooth and iPod integration there isn't really a lot more to gain other than the neat and tidy aspects as well as added security of not having a stand alone unit for someone to steal. Personally I like the neatness of the integration so will spend the money, but if you want to break it down to brass tacks... yep your paying a fair premium for that neatness to most cases.

[Corey_R]

I personally think that a lot of people underestimate/undervalue the usefulness of the MFD integration. I've used both portable units and the old MKV DVD based navigation extensively (only the RNS-510 for a day in a loaned Passat CC), and the MFD information, whether being guided or not, was great...

So convenience, neatness, and the MFD are three reasons why I'd never bother with a portable unit.

[Idle]

Well this is what I don't understand either. I mean, the maps and POI data all come from the one company, Sensis, whether you get a Tom Tom, Garmin, Navman, or any of the car manufacturers intergrated units. Yet all the "cost price" of the Nav dvds for all the car companies is multiple times more expensive than the portable brands, and the "map coverage" and "up-to-date-ness" vary greatly, and additional features such as speed cameras, speed zone limits, are not included.

I find it hard to believe that not a single car manufacturer has thought it a good idea to offer the same features as the portable units. I mean, why wouldn't Audi do this so they can advertise this as a feature of theirs over BMW etc? Therefore I truly wonder whether there is some kinda "contract" between the portable vendors and Sensis to prevent the car manufacturers from offering these features in order to protect the portable industry!

It totally wouldn't surprise me....

Me either, but it's more likely to be volume/markup related — in-car units in this country are low volume, therefore the per unit cost of developing/adapting software is relatively high. Add to that carmakers' markup expectations on something they regard as fruit on the sideboard (this attitude carries through to most spare parts as well) and you can see why the hardware and software costs so much.

What annoys me is their attitude to the software version supplied — charging top dollar wouldn't be so bad if they supplied top software, but they don't. What you get for your money is the cheapest version they can lay their hands on.

Portable satnavs come with (usually) top end maps etc. for the simple reason that competition is keen, volume is at least reasonable and the devices are now just about priced down to appliance level — they're not regarded as luxuries for the well-to-do any more.

As an analogy, I build my own computers, all of which require an operating system to tell them they're not just a smart box of switches. If I choose Microsoft Windows (which I usually do, and as a rule go for a top end version) I have to buy it in as a low-volume system builder and pay several hundred $'s for it. A name brand manufacturer selling a similar system by the thousands (some models sell millions) can pre-install an equivalent version for about $30 a unit — if they install the cheapest/least featured version (which would still cost me about $85) they may well get it for $5 a copy.

Obviously Microsoft doesn't see me buying one license @ perhaps $220 as being equal to Dell paying $30,000,000 or so in royalties for a production run — but at least, unlike the car makers with maps, by paying the asking price I do get equivalent functionality (and free updates for the life of the product), so I don't regard it as a ripoff.

Rant ends...

[Rob Burns]

[*]Allows Voice Control of cars features (does this need to be mated with a Bluetooth kit?)

While not sure on the 2011 models that are apparently going to come with the factory bluetooths (I haven't seen or heard anything about it except on this forum) the 2010 models that have voice activation have nothing to do with bluetooth. When a bluetooth kit is installed it uses the Voice activation microphone, otherwise it is a completely different system.