MOTOR Hot Tuner Challenge

[Guy_H]

Note from an accountant friend of mine (they are good with numbers) from the scores - the Golf R is the only car that won outright two categories. And the lap time & apex speeds were the best recorded at the entire event (That means when the next two issues come out with the big $$ cars - GT2's GT3' black series etc) nothing beat it!

Sill doesn't make up for the "poor performance", but another interesting point.

puts down rose coloured glasses

[Corey_R]

I'm still yet to figure out the allocations of scores in categories.
The dyno tests seem to be purely based on number, not power to weight etc, giving huge advantage to the relatively dinasour Australian entries compared to the high-tech Euro/Japanese entries.
HUGE differences in lap time equal small (i.e. less than 1 point out of 20) difference in track score.

Even great acceleration times (of the DSG S3) mean little if not matched by huge Dyno numbers etc.

So that's my beef. What is the point of this test?
The fatest cars in the "Traffic lights GP" tests didn't win. So it's clearly not aimed at "road usage". Yet little emphasis was given to track times either.

[Glennb]

Haven't read the article, but how much of a part does the brake pistons actually play in a 1 off emergency stop? Once you stomp the pedal, it's basically a balance of the ABS tuning and the tyres fitted at the time isn't it??
Piston/caliper/pad quality would be a much bigger issue in repeated high temp, high speed stops (eg track work), so I reckon it's a bit of a funny test for a so called Hot Tuner challenge.

[Corey_R]

The Scirocco with $11,500 8 piston 365mm brakes stopped in 38.5m
The Audi S3 with $4,820 6 piston 365mm brakes stopped in 39.1m.
The Golf R with $4,500 4 piston 370mm brakes stopped in 38.5, and the Golf GTI with the same brakes stopped in 37.2m.

In the Japanese cars, a similar thing happened. They were mostly 4 piston except for 1 WRX STI running 6 piston (39.1m, 2nd last) and 1 Liberty GT with 2 piston (38.3m, middle spot)

So I think what is more important is the overall package than just how many pistons are on the calipers.

[Guy_H]

From what we worked out with the scoring, its across all 31 cars in attendance, this issue only covers the first 18 cars (so there are ~ 13 scores missing out of the results)

The other cars will be featured in the upcoming issues.

Yes, the dyno is a killer. Its just a straight @ wheels figure, does not matter if FWD / RWD / AWD 4 cylinder, supercharged, turboed or nitrous. 4 cylinder is at an immediate disadvantage - Even MRT's super STI finished back because of that (and it made awesome power for a 4 pot).

Anyway, hopefully next year we can get a few more "Hot Hatches" & have enough for it's own class - judged against each other.

On the brakes - 4 pot, 6 pot, 8 pot, piston numbers don't matter that much. Its a question of:

Clamping force over pad area, caliper stiffness & heat dissipation.

Of course pad choice for hot or cold stops has a lot to do with it to.

[ethosguy]

Guy,
Given you have chosen the set up for cornering, would you offer comment about the relationship of the agressive wheel alignment camber, (neg 3 deg?), on braking and dragstrip performance?
A lot of comment brake/tyre size but tyre contact patch is a big deal in these tests...
I wonder how a streetable alignment might compare with a track setup? Any chance of a comparison between say neg 3 and neg 0.5 or 1?
Is the transmission up to the loads that I suspect would increase with the whole tyre contacting the road?

Were your direct competitors using such agressive cambers too?

[MACCAA]

Guy,
Given you have chosen the set up for cornering, would you offer comment about the relationship of the agressive wheel alignment camber, (neg 3 deg?), on braking and dragstrip performance?
A lot of comment brake/tyre size but tyre contact patch is a big deal in these tests...
I wonder how a streetable alignment might compare with a track setup? Any chance of a comparison between say neg 3 and neg 0.5 or 1?
Is the transmission up to the loads that I suspect would increase with the whole tyre contacting the road?

Were your direct competitors using such agressive cambers too?

Can't speak for everyone,but most were running a fair bit of neg,which again detracts from braking performance.
You have to compromise a bit in these events as you can't change set up at all,other than tyre pressures.
So naturally you set your car up to its strengths.
One thing that puzzles me,the Track Time was worth 20% of the final score.
We got 20 for winning,the slowest car got 18.34...and it was 20 seconds a lap slower....
Doesn't seem like just reward for winning the Track Time outright.
Dyno results should be on % increase on stock,not overall.
However,the guys at MOTOR do their best to make it as fair as possible but there'll always be some anomalies.
One thing I think that needs addressing is to have the same driver for all the cars on the circuit.That way we know the driver is consistent in the result.
Luffy is the man for the job here-he's awesomely fast and consistent in anything he drives.
Bit hard to beat 6.0 Litre Supercharged Chevvies....

[Guy_H]

Camber certainly does effect the straight line "power down" factor, and as Len mentioned - braking as well.

For the track (and actually we normally drive this way on the street - but it kills the inner tyre tread) we run between 2.8 & 3 degrees negative.

On our MKV which Motor managed a 13.8 1/4 mile in (3" camber & Hoosier Semi Slicks, we took it to the QLD drags, running street tyres & with 6 practice launches (and a camber or 1") ran a 12.9 second 1/4 mile.

Mind you, practice launch after practice launch also helped - and they only did three total in the cars having never driven them before.

That's why an Auto / DSG / PDK is also so much easier to jump in & drive.

[Guy_H]

Talking bbout transmission loads, well.....our third car snapped a gearbox output shaft - clean in half on the dragstrip after a warm up run of 12.5 seconds. That's an issue of too much grip & too much HP, so yes, there is a breaking point.

On my old Audi TT MK1 rally car, we managed to shear the rear prop shaft coupling on a bitumen "Launch" in a Dutton Rally. Made a mess, punched a hole in the fuel tank and all.

[Highlander]

All hail the APR GTI

I don't know what its like for a street drive but we can't help but be gobsmacked by the overall performance of the APR GTI. For a $64k car, and a few blades of grass off $20k cheaper than the APR Golf R, The modifications and overall package looks outstanding value for money, considering how close its results were to the R. What a fabulous result.

Guy, I am sure that if you were asked before the event the categories you would most like to win, they would have been lap time and apex speeds (and I also have a sneaking suspicion that you would love to achieve a low or sub 4 second 0-100 time but that a DSG and another story away). Those two categories are the only categories that really matter when you are modifying a car a car to make it the quickest from A to B ---- and perhaps the only two that have any real meaning in this sort of comparison. Congratulations, you must be smiling from ear to ear with the results.

[danielb]

So what laptimes did the R and GTI pull at EC?

[Corey_R]

The Golf R did 1:59.0 and the Golf GTI did 2:00.6 - both on a very wet track, and (I believe) both driven by a rather "laid back" Paul Morris.

[brad]

The Golf R did 1:59.0 and the Golf GTI did 2:00.6 - both on a very wet track, and (I believe) both driven by a rather "laid back" Paul Morris.

bloodshot eyes or a headache?

[Corey_R]

Well... I wasn't personally there, so I wouldn't quite go to that extent
But I watched the video and it looked like someone on a "casual Sunday drive" in many places. You know - 1 hand on the wheel, the other hand on his lap... on a few occassions he found himself in completely the wrong gear coming out of a corner and had to change down a few when he realised it wasn't going to pull through unless he changed, etc. It's quite amazing that the Golf's were able to set the times they did! hehe

[Guy_H]