Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[BrianD]

Have you test driven the R yet? It may make the decision a lot easier.

I haven't, but I should. I may ring up for an appointment to test drive the R. Could be an expensive test drive!

[triode12]

I haven't, but I should. I may ring up for an appointment to test drive the R. Could be an expensive test drive!

I can almost guarantee that you will love it.

[obiwan]

Well I only got to be a passenger in the hot lap at the VW driver training day day last Friday in Brisbane. It was a wild ride, a lot of fun. I don't know how close my Mk6 GTI would be with a professional driver doing the same thing. I was in the back seat and with the helmet on and the G-forces happening, I couldn't move my head to try and see what speed we were doing. Well I could eventually, but it cracked me up with the effort it took to get there.

[thezoneR32]

GTI v R v R32

I haven’t driven either the gti or R, I own a MkV R32 DSG with gen 2 haldex, apr tune and KW SHS coilvers. This talk of understeery behaviour on the R32 I find intriguing. The only time understeer occurs is when ESP is ON and you throw it violently into a corner with no throttle. Turn off ESP and gas it thru the apex the gen 2 pushes the rear around sweetly and if anything I get more oversteer and 4 wheel slides than understeer. I have owned many tbo's and na's and I would not want to lose the instant torque that my R32 delivers. Who cares about top end, ultimately it’s the low end torque that makes it a sweet ride day to day. Everyone who drives my car comments on the lighting quick kickdown and instant power rush.

Long live the NA’s. (Yes I know they stopped making it and yes I will test drive both the mk6 gti and R).

PS Thanks to WJ for his great right ups – I’m loving these KW SHS’s! - Cheers mate!

[WhiteJames]

R32: To trade or not to trade?

Do I trade in the R32 for a Mark 6 Golf R or Mark 6 Golf GTI?

Apart from the obvious upgrades between Mark 5 and Mark 6 models, the upgrades that make the Golf R stand over & above the R32 are:

1. EDL – EDL is the low speed part of the XDS electronic diff. It imperceptibly brakes the inside front wheel, forcing the torque out to the out-bound front wheel. It’s an electronic intervention that is proactive on the Golf R and Golf GTI (MK6), rather than reactive as in the case of ESC on the R32. It’s also what gives the Golf R an advantage over the Audi S3 (S3 doesn’t have EDL diff I’m told- Audi RS5 does).

2. Generation IV Haldex AWD is has lifted the bar over Generation III Haldex system. It relates to a hardware upgrade involving a high pressure hydraulic pump shifting drive rearwards, rather than a simple software upgrade.

3. Standard suspension tune on the Golf R is way ahead of the standard R32 for ride & handling, including body roll (whole Golf range for that matter).

4. 35kg less mass up front – No amount of suspension tuning can compensate for a balanced chassis. The R32 is less front heavy than the GTI, but the Golf R if further improved on the front to rear weight distribution, in addition to less overall mass – makes a difference when stringing a serious of corners together.

5. Stronger performance higher up in the rev range – Golf R motor hits its stride just before the R32 starts to lose some stem.


An R32 with coilovers & aftermarket haldex system will show a slight to moderate improvement on reducing under-steer – depending how the coilovers are set up. Adding a set of H&R solid adjustable sway bars makes a very pronounced improvement in reducing under-steer, albeit at the expense of a reduction in ride comfort. H&R bars on hard/hard will make for a drifter and will understeer less than standard, but still understeer at the limit with reduced margins for error – H&R bars on front soft/rear hard will have the R32 much closer to neutral in chassis tune – noticeably so from 8/10ths onwards. H&R solid adjustable sway bars on soft/hard F & R will have the R32 turning from its centre axis like a downhill skier, rather than turning from the front with under steer as is the case with stock sway bars. H&R sway bars don’t change that fact that the R32 has an extra 35kg up front and higher overall mass reducing the threshold of grip –v- Golf R.


Would I sell my R32 for a Golf R?


Depends ... If you mainly drive around town, then no. The R32 would be easier to live with given its low down responsive V6 motor - the chassis improvements of the Golf R are not as likely to be fully explored for city driving & the Golf R motor has turbo lag to contend with.


If you spend a good amount of time driving extra-urban/tourist routes, then yes. The Golf R’s lighter weight, improved chassis balance making for a more fluid drive, new generation haldex system coupled with EDL diff has put the Golf R into another league as a driver’s vehicle.


Cheers
WJ

[thezoneR32]

Ok you win, the R is better blah blah blah. But hey its gonna cost me crap loads to make the switch probably double the cost of what I could get for the R32 privately. You can't give away 2nd hand cars at the moment. And VW would offer me 2 and 6pence for the R32. Might just stick with it and keep giving my biased uneducated opinions to justify my position

WJ - would you recommenmd H&R over whiteline for sways?

[WhiteJames]

H&R sway bars are best by far and worth twice the price they may cost over the Whiteline bars. No need for new bolts or clips - H&R use OE bolts and clips for bushes. The bushes are rubber with a teflon coating that do not squeak and do not require any oiling. Front and Rear H&R sway bars on the R32 will bring the handling much closer to a new (stock) Golf R. Coupled with that super-responsive no-lag V6 ... the R32 will be formidable up a mountain pass.

Cheers.
WJ

[hooba]

Might just stick with it and keep giving my biased uneducated opinions to justify my position

Brilliant!

[G-rig]

Ok you win, the R is better blah blah blah. But hey its gonna cost me crap loads to make the switch probably double the cost of what I could get for the R32 privately. You can't give away 2nd hand cars at the moment. And VW would offer me 2 and 6pence for the R32. Might just stick with it and keep giving my biased uneducated opinions to justify my position

WJ - would you recommenmd H&R over whiteline for sways?

Nothing wrong with the handling of the R32 once you have some good Coilovers, Haldex Gen II and H&R sway bars. Would out handle an R on stock suspension IMO and then it's just down to your tyres which are the last thing to let go .

[entice]

Is this thread still going????

[REXman]

Yep? This message is too short?

[dave_r]

Is this thread still going????

Why wouldn't it be, this thread is like politics or religion. No one will ever agree but this *is* a discussion forum is it not?

[WhiteJames]

Go Auto review from the Tasmania Golf R launch drive:

Volkswagen Golf R 3-dr hatch | GoAuto - Our Opinion

Interesting to see that the Manual Golf R has shorter gearing than the DSG Golf R.

Cheers.
WJ

[REXman]

I would have thought the opposite? Interesting.

[WhiteJames]

EA888 -v- EA113

Service Training

Self-Study Program 824803

The Volkswagen 2.0 Litre

Chain-Driven TSI Engine


EA888: High-Pressure Pump



The demand controlled high-pressure pump by
Bosch is driven by a four lobed cam on the end of
the intake camshaft.


The pump piston is driven by the camshaft and a
cam follower. This reduces friction as well as the
chain forces. The results are smoother engine
operation and higher fuel economy.


The use of the four lobe cam has allowed a reduced
piston stroke compared to earlier versions of the
2.0L TSI engine. Due to the shorter stroke, the
individual delivery rates are lower. This, in turn,
results in reduced pressure fluctuations. The
metering precision of the injectors is also improved,
as there is now one feed stroke per injection. The
advantage of this is improved oxygen sensor control
and fuel efficiency.

EA888: Fuel Rail


The fuel delivery rate of the high-pressure pump has
been reduced through the use of a four-lobe cam.
A quicker pressure build-up is thus possible. This
build-up benefits both cold start and hot start
situations.

The EA888 motor in the Mark 6 Golf GTI (and Tiguan 125TSI) has improved fuel metering over the older type EA113 motor in the MKV GTI and Golf R. The reduced fuel pressure fluctuations of one feed stroke per injection of fuel in the new EA888 motor results in greater consistency between the throttle application and acceleration of the motor – in other words - the injectors and fuel pump are working in unison on the same time cycle in the new EA888 motor.


Turbo lag down low on the Golf R was not the only issue I found with the KO4 boosted older EA113 motor. The pressure fluctuations between throttle applications and lack of motor response, or at times, too much motor response, was noted on my Golf R test drive and it detracts from the driver/vehicle feeling of connectedness.


Volkswagen has done a sterling job of reducing the turbo lag in the KO4 Golf R EA113 motor. The difference in fuel pressure build-up between the older EA113 motor and new EA888 motor feels tangible, as mentioned by myself in post # 1-2 and other forum members in subsequent reviews. Other forum member’s reviews described the throttle response of the Golf R as ‘wooden’, ‘unresponsive’ or ‘inert’.


The same also holds true between EA113 and EA888 of the MKV and MKVI Golf GTI motors using a similar sized turbo-chargers (also holds true for the Audi A3 147 kW Quattro AWD –v- Tiguan 125TSI AWD). Turbo lag of the larger KO4 turbo is another issue in itself.


There was a stage a several years ago where guys that boosted their turbo-chargers on the EA113 MKV GTI motor experienced fuel delivery problems esp. when going to stage II turbo boosted tunes – this came down to issues with the OE fuel pump and absence of the four lobe cam actuator in the older MKV Golf EA113 motor.

Cheers
WJ