Golf 118 TSI Engine Failures and Service Campaign 24S4

[ope126]

This might not make sense but the dealer needs to cover themselves. VWA won't cover cost unless the dealer produces evidence of manufacturing fault. Manufacturing fault can't be determined until the strip down. The dealer won't do the strip down without assurance that someone will pay for the labour be it the customer if manufacturing fault isn't found or VWA if manufacturing fault is found and approved.

Bloody sucks as not everyone can (a) afford to have their car off the road for any period of time and (b) the actual stumping up of $ with the risk totally being worn by the customer.

I've not been in this situation so I cannot comment directly but I hope that a nicely worded email/letter to VWA along the lines of
(a) known issue
(b) all external / non-strip down tests point to the known issue failure
(c) we can't come up with the $ for the tear down to prove.
(d) help!

Might get you somewhere.

Easy to write harder to implement but with so many having this issue surely VWA could be persuade to help with or without ACCC/Consumer affairs/MTAA prodding them. Sadly with the class action over diesel-gate (which VWA will win in my humble opinion) they're busy with bigger fish.

Well worded minke!

[Waz]

This might not make sense but the dealer needs to cover themselves. VWA won't cover cost unless the dealer produces evidence of manufacturing fault. Manufacturing fault can't be determined until the strip down. The dealer won't do the strip down without assurance that someone will pay for the labour be it the customer if manufacturing fault isn't found or VWA if manufacturing fault is found and approved.

Bloody sucks as not everyone can (a) afford to have their car off the road for any period of time and (b) the actual stumping up of $ with the risk totally being worn by the customer.

I've not been in this situation so I cannot comment directly but I hope that a nicely worded email/letter to VWA along the lines of
(a) known issue
(b) all external / non-strip down tests point to the known issue failure
(c) we can't come up with the $ for the tear down to prove.
(d) help!

Might get you somewhere.

Easy to write harder to implement but with so many having this issue surely VWA could be persuade to help with or without ACCC/Consumer affairs/MTAA prodding them. Sadly with the class action over diesel-gate (which VWA will win in my humble opinion) they're busy with bigger fish.

Update

Goodwill claim rejected.

I need a mechanic and a 2012 engine. Where do I go with it.

Never ever buy VW again in my life.

[tigger73]

Update

Goodwill claim rejected.

I need a mechanic and a 2012 engine. Where do I go with it.

Never ever buy VW again in my life.

You have to realize that when VW rejects the goodwill warranty that this is their first "offer". You can either accept it or reject it. Don't take it as first and final.

Of course they are going to start out by "low-balling" you. If you go away and pay to get your own engine fitted this is a win for them.

I'd go back to them and say that you reject their initial offer and please come back with something more reasonable (i.e. full cover for parts and labour). This is your offer back to them. This is called negotiation.

Now your case will be stronger if you have maintained the vehicle according to the maintenance schedule (12 months/15,000km whichever occurs first). If you haven't then VW could argue that the failure was (partly) due to poor maintenance.

This is the problem that I have with the whole $2k diagnostic up front only to reject the claim based on service history. If they were going to do that then they should have told you up front that it would be rejected and saved you $2k. In this case I'd be going them (or the dealer) for the $2k if they knew that there was no chance for goodwill repair then they should have been upfront with you before you started down this track.

[Mk R]

You still have a tonne of leverage here. Now you can start twisting the shank and making noise on the VW social media sites. Twitter, Facebook etc while also following the more formal route. Make sure you let them know you have all the time and energy in the world to tell the world know how shonky the product is and how poorly they treated you. Mentioning specific service locations and dealers in public complaints tends to hit a nerve. Those businesses are very sensitive to reputation.

VW Demanding $2,000 diagnosis only to reject you on a point they were aware of before hand is unconscionable and if that happened you deserve the money back.

If you get jack of it and just want it fixed, perhaps start a thread on "Used 118 TSI Engine Swaps" and ask people here for their costs and mechanics. We'd all happily list or PM our experiences and recommendations. The demand for used engines is strong but the stupidity of drivers is stronger. There will be plenty of wrecked golfs out there with engines for sale.

[Ryan_R]

Another alternative is getting quotes from an independent VW specialist to order new components and rebuild the engine (at lower cost: I've been quoted $3,000 to $5,000 ballpark for 2 cylinders + timing chain). A used CAVD swap could just be another ticking time bomb.

[Mk R]

Another alternative is getting quotes from an independent VW specialist to order new components and rebuild the engine (at lower cost: I've been quoted $3,000 to $5,000 ballpark for 2 cylinders + timing chain). A used CAVD swap could just be another ticking time bomb.

If someone does do the piston replacement, make sure all 4 get swapped out. The Wossner forged pistons for this engine are cheaper and stronger than the VW ones.

[Snail Style]

The dealer won't know what you are getting in regards to goodwill until the claim is put through.

Anytime something like this comes up i always translate it back to doctors/hospitals. When you go to the doctor, does he sit you down do all the diagnosis and then let you walk away for free? No. Does he know what kind of insurance coverage you have and what they will actually offer/compensate? No. Does he know your "service" history or need to comment on what lifespan can be expected from your internals? No.

Dealer/mechanics are simply doing their job and following procedures. All these muppets trying to explain how diagnosis should be done really need to stay in their seat and take their hands away from the keyboard. However as others have said, exhaust all your options in regards to goodwill. As long as there is no chink in your story, regarding maintenance, then you should come off much better than what has been offered. Social media, customer care, ACCC are all there for your use.

[tigger73]

Agree and if we are taking the doctor analogy another step what I've said is to check out your insurance cover before you head to the doctor so you know whether the first visit and any subsequent operations are going to be covered. It happens in the medical world with gaps, annual limits and exclusions. You can ring up your health insurance company and discuss treatment/operation upfront and they can tell you exactly what is getting covered and how much you're going to be out of pocket.

I know that the "standard" procedure at VW is for diagnosis first and then talk to the insurance guys (warranty dept), however for me this is backwards. If I'm going to be out of pocket $2k, I want to know whether my (goodwill) insurance is going to cover it before heading down the path of diagnosis. Otherwise you open yourself up to get raped and pillaged.

The problem is you're already committing to spend $2k for diagnosis not knowing whether this and/or the repairs is even going to be covered . It's a bad model and a recipe for people to get unnecessarily disenchanted with the brand if the outcome is not favorable. This could all be avoided if the conversation happened up front. There is no real reason why it can't - other than the process is already in place to run it backwards from a customer perspective.

[Ryan_R]

Just an update: I've had my dealer-submitted good will claim for piston ring failure x2 rejected due to 'age of vehicle' (delivery date of Sep 2009). I've just spoken to VW Customer Care where no progress has been made. This was an international engine of the year in 2009. The issue was found in 2009; the age of the vehicle then was 1. The now-expired 2 years of extended warranty that I purchased in case things went boom was a waste.

Frankly it all seems to me that the cost of #dieselgate is going to kill all chances of assistance. To go from a car that I sung praises to my friends and family (many of whom now drive Golf's) to end up with dead TSI's and cheating TDI's is incredible. I'm sick of hearing about VW in the news with more scandals and I'm sick of the brand in general. I will be looking to take this further.


Contrary to other posts above, I can't complain about the dealer (FTG). They haven't charged me anything for diagnosis and provided a free loan car for a week (with a week's notice). Just a bit slow in returning phone calls.




In other news I've purchased an Audi A3 1.8T Quattro Ambition. Yes it's somewhat another Golf but the bigger/older engine design and DSG6 should prove to be more reliable, if a little thirstier.
Let's hope.

[Transporter]

The problem is you're already committing to spend $2k for diagnosis not knowing whether this and/or the repairs is even going to be covered . It's a bad model and a recipe for people to get unnecessarily disenchanted with the brand if the outcome is not favorable. This could all be avoided if the conversation happened up front. There is no real reason why it can't - other than the process is already in place to run it backwards from a customer perspective.

In summary, the car is out of warranty and someone has to pay for the work carried out. I don't see that any other brand franchised dealer would do it for free.

By law, the manufacturers have to keep the spare parts in stock for 8 years, so it's not unreasonable to expect that the life of the car is 8 years, in which case the engines that are failing and are close to be 8 years old don't have to get any goodwill repairs.

[tigger73]

I don't disagree that someone has to pay for the work carried out.

You would know better than most if you're up front with the customer about how much a job is going to cost and they give you the go-ahead then nobody is upset. The customer has the opportunity to go somewhere else if they don't like your price/offer.

I just think it's not very good customer service to offer people some hope and take them through a process only to tell them that by the way nothing is going to be covered by goodwill. The only reason people have taken their cars to the VW dealer in the first place is that the carrot of goodwill repairs has been dangled and they're expecting/hoping that VW is going to come to the party.

My point all along is that people need to be made aware of the (likely) costs upfront so they don't find themselves $2k into a $10k job.

The whole engine pull-down is in my opinion totally unnecessary if VW is not going to cover the costs. The only reason that the dealer is doing the pull-down is for warranty/goodwill repairs claims. If VW is not going to be covering any of the repairs bill then this "work" should never be carried out. It's only adding unnecessary cost to the job.

A lot of heartache could be avoided if VW was upfront with the customers about what was going to be offered in terms of goodwill before the job was started. It shouldn't be that hard.

[Umai Naa!!]

The dealer can't submit a goodwill claim without thorough diagnosis, and this includes procuring evidence of the failure and where possible, how it occurred.

The dealer will tell you in the first instance that you'll be liable for parts and labour, if a claim is denied. They may also give some indication of the likelihood of the claim being accepted at all.

[tigger73]

The dealer can't submit a goodwill claim without thorough diagnosis, and this includes procuring evidence of the failure and where possible, how it occurred.

No point going to all the expense if the claim is just going to get rejected based on age of car and/or service history. These things are known things that takes 5 minutes to check before starting an expensive goodwill claim.

The dealer will tell you in the first instance that you'll be liable for parts and labour, if a claim is denied. They may also give some indication of the likelihood of the claim being accepted at all.

I don't think the dealer would make any promises on likelihood or otherwise of a goodwill claim.

Anyway it's a pretty crappy situation to be in with a relatively low km car having a blown engine even if it is 6-7 years old. I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation. Obviously a second-hand engine would be the go as long as you could find one.

[Umai Naa!!]

But it's always the car owner that takes the gamble, even when they're advised that any chance of assistance will be slim.

VW will want a full, and complete diagnosis of the fault or failure, including photos and diagnostic logs, as part of a goodwill request before any assistance will be considered.

[tigger73]

Yeah the problem is these cars are only worth ~$10 so cost of investigation is 20% of the value of the vehicle. Repair cost is around the value of the car. It's getting close to a bin job.