MKVI GTI ECU Upgrade...Which is Best?

[logger]

But now that these new VW's (and older cars depending on whether VW have 'retrospectively re-flashed with 1024 bit encryption') need to have the ECU physically removed to be flashed on a bench with the new APR equipment...

Do they need to do it on a bench? I thought it more likely the first time APR see a new ECU code they needed to see it at HQ, but now the appropriate Equip is at the 15 distributors they not longer need pull it and send it back to HQ. My guess is they can still do it in situ. Could well be wrong though.

[schoona]

Bugger no Blufin any more...

I just wanted a little bit of extra grunt to play with and i could justify $1,000 doing it but now you are talk almost double that for APR plus the risks with new car Warranty. It is fast becoming just not worth it really

You have just bought a mk6 GTI and dont have 2k gfor the product it deserves. ? Weird...

Im not saying buy APR, but if thats what you needed/chose as per what Fuzion said, your deciding factor is i dont have 2k....

[Corey_R]

Do they need to do it on a bench? I thought it more likely the first time APR see a new ECU code they needed to see it at HQ, but now the appropriate Equip is at the 15 distributors they not longer need pull it and send it back to HQ. My guess is they can still do it in situ. Could well be wrong though.

Guy_H would be the best person to answer, but looking at this thread that Tim supplied, it looks as though they literally have to remove the ECU from the car to plug it into the new APR flashing hardware.

[Maverick]

Guy_H would be the best person to answer, but looking at this thread that Tim supplied, it looks as though they literally have to remove the ECU from the car to plug it into the new APR flashing hardware.

Shouldn't be long before APR have the ability to flash via the obd port going by their past performance either I would think.

[Highlander]

Torque Logging

APR still undetectable & security lockout (if you purchase it) still works!

Is there any logging of torque maximums through the DSG that can be accessed by VW service.

The apparent number of DSGs replaced under warranty mentioned on these forums gives me some cause for concern. Although it may not be attributable to increased torque, I am sure that the replacement debate with the dealer may be a little more difficult if 400 + NM have been logged through my TDIs DSG.

[logger]

Guy_H would be the best person to answer, but looking at this thread that Tim supplied, it looks as though they literally have to remove the ECU from the car to plug it into the new APR flashing hardware.

Yes I agree - He's the Man. Suspect its more a case of, they can chose to, but do not have to, remove the ECU to reflash it. Allows a customers to send their ECU to tuner without the car which would be convenient in some situations. They certainly did not have to remove the one in my MK6, but its not a GTI, its is older and its a different tune.

[Corey_R]

Is there any logging of torque maximums through the DSG that can be accessed by VW service.

The apparent number of DSGs replaced under warranty mentioned on these forums gives me some cause for concern. Although it may not be attributable to increased torque, I am sure that the replacement debate with the dealer may be a little more difficult if 400 + NM have been logged through my TDIs DSG.

I'm not sure there is to be honest.
Also, I don't think that the DSG issues are related to torque. Clutch failures sure, but not issues requiring the replacement of the DSG itself.

APR have had Stage IV GTI's (I have no idea what stage iv even is, apart from it is able to launch a GTI from 0 to 100 in about 4 seconds and do over 300kph) with DSG gearboxes, and VW themselves equiped the Scirocco 24 hour cars with the DSG - so the 6sp wet-clutch DSG can take WAAAAAAAY more than 400NM

[logger]

Is there any logging of torque maximums through the DSG that can be accessed by VW service.

The apparent number of DSGs replaced under warranty mentioned on these forums gives me some cause for concern. Although it may not be attributable to increased torque, I am sure that the replacement debate with the dealer may be a little more difficult if 400 + NM have been logged through my TDIs DSG.

As far as I can see the DSG controller does not log torque. On the other hand a Fault Message may get logged if certain conditions are met. A properly built tune should not place the engine or gearbox in situations where faults are generated any more so than stock.
If you were unlucky enough to have a power train issue (engine\gearbox) after an ECU tune, your first port of call should perhaps be to the tuner. They may then be in a situation to remove the tune, and clear any fault messages that may or may not be attributable to it prior to taking it to your dealer. For this reason the accessibility of your tuner down the track may be a factor when you decide who to go with.

[Tim]

Yes I agree - He's the Man. Suspect its more a case of, they can chose to, but do not have to, remove the ECU to reflash it. Allows a customers to send their ECU to tuner without the car which would be convenient in some situations. They certainly did not have to remove the one in my MK6, but its not a GTI, its is older and its a different tune.

Due to the new encryption its looking like all applicable ECUs need to be flashed on the bench. No doubt someone will crack it eventually. At this stage it looks like for GTI owners that ECU removal will be required from most tuners. Its no big deal really. It wasnt that long ago that chips were being soldered in.

[HereGoes]

You have just bought a mk6 GTI and dont have 2k gfor the product it deserves. ? Weird...

It is not about not having 2k to spend it is about cost/benefit. 1k for a little more power to play with that you will only get to use one in a while makes a lot more sense that 2k. That is a nice holiday! Priorities that is all.

[Corey_R]

It is not about not having 2k to spend it is about cost/benefit. 1k for a little more power to play with that you will only get to use one in a while makes a lot more sense that 2k. That is a nice holiday! Priorities that is all.

lol.... you shouldn't post stuff like that. It makes it very obvious that you haven't done your homework.

'A little more power' would be the BIGGEST understatement EVER about what any of these companies ECU flashes do.

Trust me, once you've gone and tried one of these, either by driving someone elses car that has already been flashed, or taking up a 'trial flash' from a company like APR, you'll understand why 'The biggest performance improvement you could perform for only $2k' would still be an understatement.

The entire reason that APR offers a security lock out and the ability to switch back to factory tuning is that there is such night and day between a GTI stock and a GTI with the Stage I flash, that any dealer would realise it had been done simply by turning the car on to move it from the car park to the service bay! They are THAT impressive

[HereGoes]

They are THAT impressive

I Get the impressiveness and the sheer difference between the two, and i have done all the homework short of the actual test drive. (If anyone want to offer one i will take it =P)

But for me it come down to do i want to spend 2k on extra power that i really do not need (but want) and knowing me will cost me even more points or would i rather pay for a flight to some adventure in a far of country? Simple economics really, allocation of resources.

[elisiX]

If you're saying spend $2k on APR or $2k on a holiday. I say take the holiday.

Doesn't for a second take away from what coreying has stated about these performance tuners.

[Corey_R]

I Get the impressiveness and the sheer difference between the two, and i have done all the homework short of the actual test drive. (If anyone want to offer one i will take it =P)

But for me it come down to do i want to spend 2k on extra power that i really do not need (but want) and knowing me will cost me even more points or would i rather pay for a flight to some adventure in a far of country? Simple economics really, allocation of resources.

Having said that, you're spending $40k+ on a car which many would argue already gives you more power than you need! You could've saved $20k and bought a Hyundai
An additional $2k is nothing when looked at the overall purchase of the car - it's probably only 3.6% to 5% of the cost of the car (depending on the options you got). Compare this to the fact that it increases power by 22% and torque by 44% - it's awesome value!

BUT... although I doubt the quality of a holiday which only costs $2k, I'd be tempted to take elisiX's advice if that $2k meant the difference between being able to take a holiday or not...

[Guy_H]

It's only $1700 for 2 programs, not 2k for a single program!

Some of the others on the market have a lower price for a single program, but that doesn't help you if you need to go back to stock for any purpose (included in our product).

If you have a dealer reflash, your APR is re-installed (no cost from APR) - has been the same way for many years now.

Anyway HereGoes, since you are in Toowong, pop over & visit us & have a chat! We can show you all the ins & outs of the MKVI!

Logger is correct on the DSG torque monitoring, but there are several factors that also influence what information gets sent to the DSG box as well. The "overtorque" situation is something that is controlled by the fuzzy logic part of the DSG controller (or the adaptable part), if the transmission is "expecting" a certain torque, it's not a problem.