MT vs DSG survey

[Beaker]

Only one thing to say to that...

Formula 1. The most high performance cars in the world.

True. But how many DSG car drivers have the excuse that they have to constantly adjust stuff like swaybar ratio's, diff preloads brake pedal adjustments, accelerator pedal profile not to mention monitor fuel ratio, fuel use, brake temperature, gearbox oil temperature, diff temperature and about 15 different engine temps. All at 250km/h +

I'll modify what I said if you like - if your steering wheel looks like this (and you actually know what it all does and do it while driving flat out) DSG is probably better then a manual and if you have a power to weight of ~1000KW/Ton I'll even let you have Traction Control

[Corey_R]

True. But how many DSG car drivers have the excuse that they have to constantly adjust stuff like swaybar ratio's, diff preloads brake pedal adjustments, accelerator pedal profile not to mention monitor fuel ratio, fuel use, brake temperature, gearbox oil temperature, diff temperature and about 15 different engine temps. All at 250km/h +

I'm not really sure I get the relevance of that... but I'll counter by saying, how many 'manual hold-outs' really need to manually operate the clutch pedal themselves, so that they can do things like reverse j-turns, stunt driving, and motorkhana for which the DSG is not optimally suited to?

[Beaker]

Um - actually I'd be one of those

But that's beside the point - I LIKE swapping the cogs myself. So much of the pleasure of driving a sports car has been clouded by electronics these days. DSG in my opinion is just another in a long line of three letter acronyms taking the driving away from me.

[Corey_R]

Well, if you fall in one of those categories, you'd probably be in a 0.5% minority!

I do get the swapping cogs and pressing the clutch thing though, and if I were to have a car which was JUST for weekend or track days or something like that, I'd more than likely get a manual again too. It's just that the majority of my driving is not for that, and therefore, the DSG still has the performance qualities of a true manual, but the convenience of not having a manually operated clutch

[GTi Crow]

True. But how many DSG car drivers have the excuse that they have to constantly adjust stuff like swaybar ratio's, diff preloads brake pedal adjustments, accelerator pedal profile not to mention monitor fuel ratio, fuel use, brake temperature, gearbox oil temperature, diff temperature and about 15 different engine temps. All at 250km/h +

I'll modify what I said if you like - if your steering wheel looks like this (and you actually know what it all does and do it while driving flat out) DSG is probably better then a manual and if you have a power to weight of ~1000KW/Ton I'll even let you have Traction Control

Defintely looks like my Golf GTI steering wheel.

[mfl]

Um - actually I'd be one of those

But that's beside the point - I LIKE swapping the cogs myself. So much of the pleasure of driving a sports car has been clouded by electronics these days. DSG in my opinion is just another in a long line of three letter acronyms taking the driving away from me.

absolutely agree, - spent the day driving a 90tsi loan car with the 7 speed dsg, considering the engine size, the car went well and if I had to buy that model, would not look at the manual because you would spend your day continually rowing your way through the gears, to keep up with the traffic flow.

my dad has a VE 6.0l calias, with 6 speed auto. in sport mode it will down-shift by itself under brakes, and will adjust its actions - upshifts and down-shifts to how hard you are pressing on, great fun, especially with 270kw, but its not the same as a manual.

but in the GTI, its the manual that makes the car feel even more special,

[Beaker]

Well, if you fall in one of those categories, you'd probably be in a 0.5% minority!

Which is a shame really. Such a capable little car by all acounts - there should be heaps of them at every 'Kahna and there just isn't

If you do a lot of commuting in the city tho - I guess DSG makes sence.

[Dubya]

True. But how many DSG car drivers have the excuse that they have to constantly adjust stuff like swaybar ratio's, diff preloads brake pedal adjustments, accelerator pedal profile not to mention monitor fuel ratio, fuel use, brake temperature, gearbox oil temperature, diff temperature and about 15 different engine temps. All at 250km/h +

I'll modify what I said if you like - if your steering wheel looks like this (and you actually know what it all does and do it while driving flat out) DSG is probably better then a manual and if you have a power to weight of ~1000KW/Ton I'll even let you have Traction Control

I'm not really sure I get the relevance of that... but I'll counter by saying, how many 'manual hold-outs' really need to manually operate the clutch pedal themselves, so that they can do things like reverse j-turns, stunt driving, and motorkhana for which the DSG is not optimally suited to?

I must admit I do see the relevance of that, Beaker.

Of course Dermot at Wangara VW in WA reckons that if you prefer a manual because of perceived greater control that "logically" means you should also prefer a car without power steering or power windows.

It does not necessarily follow in my book, but each to his own.

No doubt a really effective sales technique, lol.

[MurphyTheElf]

I must admit I do see the relevance of that, Beaker.

Of course Dermot at Wangara VW in WA reckons that if you prefer a manual because of perceived greater control that "logically" means you should also prefer a car without power steering or power windows.

It does not necessarily follow in my book, but each to his own.

No doubt a really effective sales technique, lol.

Good God, man! You just couldn't leave it alone, could you? You had to dig up a month-old thread to try to get in a cheap shot. Unbelievable.

[windmagnet]

DSG review from former manual driver

Having had my Mk6 GTI with DSG for about 5 months, I thought I would share my thoughts on the DSG. I will try to give an unbiased view.

My primary vehicle has been a manual for the last 15 years. Have also regularly driven lower end autos which have all been very ordinary to drive.

I decided to go for DSG because I thought it would be fun, interesting and it offered the best of both worlds.

So far, I have had the following experiences:

D is great for poodling around town and low fuel consumption but it shifts through the gears much too quickly if you are wanting to wind up the revs and have a bit of a squirt.

Sport is fantastic for a bit of hard driving on windy country roads but it is a bit too far to the other extreme for use around town, even if you are wanting to have a bit of fun.

Manual with the paddle shifters is my favourite way to go. The only minor issue I have had is that when the car is cold the change from first to second can be a bit abrupt. This usually only affects the first shift of the day and after that it is fine.

I have not had any problems with slow engagement of the gears or hesitation/stalling on take off from lights. DSG seems to work fine taking off on flat and on slopes in any direction. I do sometimes notice a tiny delay if coming to a stop (when the gearbox has moved into neutral) and then seeking to accelerate before completely stopping. However, this is only noticeable with hesitant/gentle acceleration. If you accelerate a bit harder it does not seem to be an issue.

Shifts are definitely faster than I could make manually. The exhaust thwarp on each shift is nice.

I do sometimes miss the manual and agree that it is probably more involving for general driving, but there is nothing numb or uninvolved about pushing along a windy road using the paddles in manual mode.

I think the future is clear. Manual wll disappear from most new cars. If Ferarri have dropped it for a number of their models, it is only a matter of time before it is gone. This is a bad thing but the market will rule. If people like me are happy to drive DSG, then those that want manual will become a tiny minority forced to run classics or to buy basic cars or very expensive cars made by low volume manufacturers.

[Corey_R]

Yeah windmagnet, those are basically my feelings too. From this day forward I will always prefer a DSG type gearbox over manual and both of them heavily over an auto. I can't stand autos, but I love the DSG for all the reasons you mentioned and more

[nau]

Yeah windmagnet, those are basically my feelings too. From this day forward I will always prefer a DSG type gearbox over manual and both of them heavily over an auto. I can't stand autos, but I love the DSG for all the reasons you mentioned and more

Im just wondering if we gone see the day when car will be AUTO/DSG/WhAtever_naME_they_can_comeup_with by default an MANUAL will cost extra ))))

[Corey_R]

Well from the sounds of things nau, the new Polo GTI will be DSG only. So maybe we're not quite at the stage where manual is extra, but yeah

[mfl]

Im just wondering if we gone see the day when car will be AUTO/DSG/WhAtever_naME_they_can_comeup_with by default an MANUAL will cost extra ))))

Although I have no interest in owning a DSG, (and respect everyones choice in getting one, I have driven a 90tsi with 7 sp DSG and thought it great) I think what will happen is that manuals will simply not be available. Currently you can't get every model car in a manual.

As this was my first VW and needed a car with a decent size boot (teenagers, sports etc) I also had a look at the Jetta 147TSI, but no manual was available. (yes it quickly picked the GTI instead).

Seeing Australians, like the Americans prefer autos to manuals, VW Aus, will just import DSGs at some stage, when manuals sales falls,

though I hope I will be able to get a mk 8 in manual sometime in the future.

[Frankenstrat]

A DSG is literally two manual gearboxes integrated into the one unit. Because humans don't have three feet, and therefore couldn't reasonably be expected to operate two clutch pedals, the gearboxes mechatronics takes care of operating those two clutches for you.

Jake The Peg? Diddle um diddle um...

Oh, and I'm sad to confirm that I'm a track-warrior control freak.